I feel like round about here is when Cromwell first starts a. forgetting things and b. being excluded from the King's innermost thoughts. Also, he outright refuses Anne for the first time: "That is not my aim and those are not my methods." And, he can do nothing for Tyndale. Also, he is overwhelmed and wants a rest. Many turning points: his power is just beginning to wane.
Definitely! Although we saw all kinds of hints of it in Wolf Hall: what is even the point of Cromwell if he can't save Tyndale? I think that conversation with Anne is fascinating. Both see themselves as the 'angel' integral to the reformation of England. It nicely sets up the coming battle, a very different one to that of Cromwell vs More.
Great points. He's also making more work for himself by purchasing estates and is conscious that they just bring hassles and no enjoyment since he doesn't have time to go see them.
Fantastic chapter and marvellous notes from Simon. It has struck me lately that these books have a touch of the unreliable narrator about them. We see the world through TC’s eyes and - more importantly - we see his own actions through his eyes. And, of course, he thinks he’s one of the guys. But now and then there’s a line that sharply cuts through to an alternate reality. Where generous, patient, dog-loving, child-adopting Cromwell achieves peace in Ireland mainly “by hanging people”. I see you there, the real Thomas Cromwell. Quite the spine tingling moment.
More than a touch: this is all about the unreliable narrator. Everything we see is from Cromwell's perspective and we have to work out his failings through the gaps in his story.
I remember when Wolf Hall first came out, readers seemed primarily to have known Cromwell as the amoral soulless antagonist of saintly Thomas More in A Man for All Seasons, and were surprised that he could be portrayed sympathetically at all. But there’s a long way between “sympathetically at all” and “sunshine and rainbows.”
Yes, I agree of course. When I’m thinking about the historical figures rather than their fictionalised characters, I always notice that most people are a mix of good and bad. Mary I, renowned for her burnings, is said to have been kind and generous, Elizabeth was both prideful and intensely loyal etc. All just people, in the end.
This depiction of Anne Boleyn keeps flooring me. She’s not likable by any standards, she’s mean, cruel, grating. She let herself cry for Porkoy, she buried the pain for her own son. She can’t hold Elizabeth, looks from afar as others hold her. She could have snatched Henry Percy, she let ambition get the best of her and went after another Henry, winning a spot that everyone resents her. Now the wolves are coming and demand a sacrifice, it’s gonna be her or it’s gonna be Cromwell, another who followed ambition into uncharted waters. They’re gonna be at each other’s throat and only one is gonna live to fight another day.
She’s shrinking into herself, her body all angles. She celebrated Katherine’s death but she’s already suffering the old Queen’s fate, the pressure to produce a male heir demanding an impossible toll, wrecking her body and soul. Reading this book is like walking into a hall of mirrors, each sentence reflected endless times, echoes and spectral forms blinking at the corners.
This is one of the things I love about Mantel’s version - she doesn’t need to make Anne a pitiful or innocent victim or even “sympathetic.” Her Anne’s a nasty piece of work - selfish, narcissistic, petty, malicious, gloating, vindictive, over-confident - and none of that makes her fate less unjust.
I know I've said this before, but I LOVE all the paintings you've found for these posts. They bring the past alive so well and as an artist myself, seeing the skills and styles of old is inspiring. Thanks for all the work you're doing, Simon!
I especially love Maria de Salinas and her “accident” in the snow outside the castle where her beloved old queen and friend is dying. What intrepid devotion! And I love Cromwell for pointing out a way, while officially refusing to help her.
You know, I'd never thought about the origins of snowmen. It seems like one of those things that people in snowy places would have done throughout time, assuming they have a bit of leisure time to do it. But perhaps it's a much newer phenomena than I thought. And now I'm sitting here, wondering what the first snowman might have looked like.
There's a whole book on it apparently (by the author I linked in the post)! There's something so familiar about these Christmas scenes, I guess they feel very modern to me but like you say, people have probably been dressing up and playing around in the snow since the dawn of time.
- This line is so delicious, given what we know is coming: ‘Those who are made can be unmade.’ It really zings, doesn't it?
- Simon! Real trees that can walk. Amazing. So delightful. Also, I adore Gregory. What a sweet soul.
- That painting 'Laughing Fool' is fantastic. Thank you for introducing me to that!
- Re: St. Uncumber and her beard... I read a graphic novel a few years ago called 'Castle Waiting' that features nuns with beards — it's a (kind of zany) re-telling of fairy tales. Fun read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_Waiting
One of the most striking quotes in the book. Remember that Anne also says the threat of execution can unmake a man, when she wanted Cromwell to threaten More. The theme of making and unmaking runs through the books.
I am so appreciative of the paintings you have on these posts - it gives the books and this series of posts another depth that I'm absolutely loving.
What I am finding so intriguing is living this through Cromwell, his thoughts and feelings, decisions - and at the same time seeing how it is slowly but surely is changing. To me it felt like this is the beginning of his fall from grace, he is being excluded, the other nobles are again showing their true feelings of him and he and Anne are not close.
The reading is like a great meal and then your commentary is like a much anticipated and delicious dessert.
In this chapter, there's a false rumor that Henry hits Cromwell who thinks to himself if it were true, he would become a "free agent" Master Secretary and accept the best offer. But he's dreaming since violating his non-compete would almost certainly mean death.
And then I compare that to the fate of Cromwell's predecessor Master Comptroller, Guildford, who left his post after Anne became Queen. Guildford retires to the country and dies soon of a lack of purpose because "What is there without Henry? Without the radiance of of his smile? It's like perpetual November, a life in the dark."
This week my attention was mostly caught by how Mantel builds an atmosphere of change and tension through echoes and contrasts:
- Court politics is increasingly looking like a zero-sum game, especially the way Anne plays it: she & Cromwell threaten each other that "those who are made can be unmade" & she says of Mary that "she is my death and I am hers."
- Both Chapuys & Vaughan comment on Cromwell’s changed behaviour ("It is not like you"); Cromwell repeatedly notes dramatic shifts in tone in his relationships ("Madam, things were once happier between us", "It is only ten days since he enjoyed a genial supper with the ambassador", "Only weeks ago, Brandon was asking him to be godfather").
- Cromwell often ends the day "smarting and thwarted" because the gentlemen of the privy chamber choose not to pass his messages to the king; Norris blocks Cromwell’s path, but when he tries to stop Henry's noble-born friend Brandon, the duke simply "knocks him aside, as if he were on crusade" shouting "Leave what you’re doing, Majesty."
- Cromwell’s humble birth excludes him from the top table, earns him the scorn of Charles Brandon ("you are a common man of no status") and bars him from representing the king at foreign courts; Rafe Sadler is happily married to Helen but cannot bring her to court because she is "lowly born and does not know court manners".
I was also struck by the different attitudes towards Katherine on her deathbed: the sincere grief of Chapuys, Henry's flippant callousness in denying his request to allow Mary to say goodbye, and Cromwell’s mixture of political sense and compassion as he keeps Mary away to prevent "oaths, deathbed promises" but helps Chapuys petition the king for permission to go himself, and discreetly helps Lady Willoughby to get herself admitted through a convenient accident.
& I loved that little detail you shared about the snowman, thank you!
In The New York Times today, Sunday, May 26, there is an article about a local historical society discovering a Tudor palace in their own town of Collywesten. It belonged to Henry VIII’s grandmother. Those of you in Great Britain probably already knew this. The countryside was beautiful. I tried to imagine Henry visiting there.
Back in Wolf Hall, when the king comes to visit the sick Thomas Cromwell, he talks about his grandmother Margaret Beaufort. How he was terrified of her and how she told him to put his faith in John Fisher.
Another Thomas More echo: in WH More advises TC: “Now you are a member of the council, I hope you tell the king what he ought to do, not merely what he can do. If the lion knew his own strength, it would be hard to rule him”. But TC chose his prince and arranged everything so that now Henry’s freedom is expected. Vaughan tells TC “Our king will be free. A free hand to do as he likes” and yet now TC realises: ‘That is what worries me, he thinks. This free hand’. TC has worked hard to free the lion, but soon the lion will eat him 🦁
Huh, I find Cromwell rather cold-blooded and also somewhat cruel when he points out to Catherine in #20 (p. 105 - 106) how differently her fate (and history) could have turned out if she had bowed to Henry's wishes. (Is it only me that feels this way?)
And although I am emotionally on Catherine's side (even if I find her unsympathetic in her narrow-minded and dogmatic religiosity), Cromwell is also right.
And this thought seems to have haunted her until shortly before her death, as Chapuys tells Cromwell in #21 (p. 177): […] But do you know,“ Chapuys says, „before I left her, she said a troubling thing to me. She said, „It might be all my fault. That I stood out against the king, when I could have made an honorable withdrawal and let him marry again.“ […]“
Yes, so chilling hearing Cromwell's words come back to him through Chapuys from a dying Katherine. He got under her skin, but didn't achieve anything by it I don't think.
Hi Simon, I’ve been with you since Jan 1 on W&P and when I saw you were planning to slow read another Mantel book in 2025, I decided to start Wolf Hall trilogy.. and I’m up to date now. Phew!
So just checking what day the weekly updates drop? I’ve listened to all the audios to date. Thanks
I feel like round about here is when Cromwell first starts a. forgetting things and b. being excluded from the King's innermost thoughts. Also, he outright refuses Anne for the first time: "That is not my aim and those are not my methods." And, he can do nothing for Tyndale. Also, he is overwhelmed and wants a rest. Many turning points: his power is just beginning to wane.
Definitely! Although we saw all kinds of hints of it in Wolf Hall: what is even the point of Cromwell if he can't save Tyndale? I think that conversation with Anne is fascinating. Both see themselves as the 'angel' integral to the reformation of England. It nicely sets up the coming battle, a very different one to that of Cromwell vs More.
It's like the souring of a love affair... Between Henry and Cromwell, that is
Great points. He's also making more work for himself by purchasing estates and is conscious that they just bring hassles and no enjoyment since he doesn't have time to go see them.
Fantastic chapter and marvellous notes from Simon. It has struck me lately that these books have a touch of the unreliable narrator about them. We see the world through TC’s eyes and - more importantly - we see his own actions through his eyes. And, of course, he thinks he’s one of the guys. But now and then there’s a line that sharply cuts through to an alternate reality. Where generous, patient, dog-loving, child-adopting Cromwell achieves peace in Ireland mainly “by hanging people”. I see you there, the real Thomas Cromwell. Quite the spine tingling moment.
More than a touch: this is all about the unreliable narrator. Everything we see is from Cromwell's perspective and we have to work out his failings through the gaps in his story.
It’s only just occurred to me because everyone seems to love Mantel’s Cromwell so much and I’m thinking, he wasn’t all sunshine and rainbows 😂
Yes, my eyebrows raise when people say Mantel's Cromwell is all about portraying him as the good guy... It's as if they haven't read the books.
I remember when Wolf Hall first came out, readers seemed primarily to have known Cromwell as the amoral soulless antagonist of saintly Thomas More in A Man for All Seasons, and were surprised that he could be portrayed sympathetically at all. But there’s a long way between “sympathetically at all” and “sunshine and rainbows.”
Yes, I agree of course. When I’m thinking about the historical figures rather than their fictionalised characters, I always notice that most people are a mix of good and bad. Mary I, renowned for her burnings, is said to have been kind and generous, Elizabeth was both prideful and intensely loyal etc. All just people, in the end.
Among so many other things this trilogy is a persuasive Origin Story for “Bloody Mary”!
You’re so right!
This depiction of Anne Boleyn keeps flooring me. She’s not likable by any standards, she’s mean, cruel, grating. She let herself cry for Porkoy, she buried the pain for her own son. She can’t hold Elizabeth, looks from afar as others hold her. She could have snatched Henry Percy, she let ambition get the best of her and went after another Henry, winning a spot that everyone resents her. Now the wolves are coming and demand a sacrifice, it’s gonna be her or it’s gonna be Cromwell, another who followed ambition into uncharted waters. They’re gonna be at each other’s throat and only one is gonna live to fight another day.
She’s shrinking into herself, her body all angles. She celebrated Katherine’s death but she’s already suffering the old Queen’s fate, the pressure to produce a male heir demanding an impossible toll, wrecking her body and soul. Reading this book is like walking into a hall of mirrors, each sentence reflected endless times, echoes and spectral forms blinking at the corners.
Lovely words summing up the reading experience.
This is one of the things I love about Mantel’s version - she doesn’t need to make Anne a pitiful or innocent victim or even “sympathetic.” Her Anne’s a nasty piece of work - selfish, narcissistic, petty, malicious, gloating, vindictive, over-confident - and none of that makes her fate less unjust.
I know I've said this before, but I LOVE all the paintings you've found for these posts. They bring the past alive so well and as an artist myself, seeing the skills and styles of old is inspiring. Thanks for all the work you're doing, Simon!
Thank you! Hunting for paintings is one of the best bits of the research.
I especially love Maria de Salinas and her “accident” in the snow outside the castle where her beloved old queen and friend is dying. What intrepid devotion! And I love Cromwell for pointing out a way, while officially refusing to help her.
You know, I'd never thought about the origins of snowmen. It seems like one of those things that people in snowy places would have done throughout time, assuming they have a bit of leisure time to do it. But perhaps it's a much newer phenomena than I thought. And now I'm sitting here, wondering what the first snowman might have looked like.
There's a whole book on it apparently (by the author I linked in the post)! There's something so familiar about these Christmas scenes, I guess they feel very modern to me but like you say, people have probably been dressing up and playing around in the snow since the dawn of time.
A few random thoughts...
- This line is so delicious, given what we know is coming: ‘Those who are made can be unmade.’ It really zings, doesn't it?
- Simon! Real trees that can walk. Amazing. So delightful. Also, I adore Gregory. What a sweet soul.
- That painting 'Laughing Fool' is fantastic. Thank you for introducing me to that!
- Re: St. Uncumber and her beard... I read a graphic novel a few years ago called 'Castle Waiting' that features nuns with beards — it's a (kind of zany) re-telling of fairy tales. Fun read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_Waiting
One of the most striking quotes in the book. Remember that Anne also says the threat of execution can unmake a man, when she wanted Cromwell to threaten More. The theme of making and unmaking runs through the books.
I am so appreciative of the paintings you have on these posts - it gives the books and this series of posts another depth that I'm absolutely loving.
What I am finding so intriguing is living this through Cromwell, his thoughts and feelings, decisions - and at the same time seeing how it is slowly but surely is changing. To me it felt like this is the beginning of his fall from grace, he is being excluded, the other nobles are again showing their true feelings of him and he and Anne are not close.
Simon,
The reading is like a great meal and then your commentary is like a much anticipated and delicious dessert.
In this chapter, there's a false rumor that Henry hits Cromwell who thinks to himself if it were true, he would become a "free agent" Master Secretary and accept the best offer. But he's dreaming since violating his non-compete would almost certainly mean death.
And then I compare that to the fate of Cromwell's predecessor Master Comptroller, Guildford, who left his post after Anne became Queen. Guildford retires to the country and dies soon of a lack of purpose because "What is there without Henry? Without the radiance of of his smile? It's like perpetual November, a life in the dark."
A good description of purgatory.
That's the really frightening thing emerging in these chapters. Without Henry: We, Cromwell, are nothing.
This week my attention was mostly caught by how Mantel builds an atmosphere of change and tension through echoes and contrasts:
- Court politics is increasingly looking like a zero-sum game, especially the way Anne plays it: she & Cromwell threaten each other that "those who are made can be unmade" & she says of Mary that "she is my death and I am hers."
- Both Chapuys & Vaughan comment on Cromwell’s changed behaviour ("It is not like you"); Cromwell repeatedly notes dramatic shifts in tone in his relationships ("Madam, things were once happier between us", "It is only ten days since he enjoyed a genial supper with the ambassador", "Only weeks ago, Brandon was asking him to be godfather").
- Cromwell often ends the day "smarting and thwarted" because the gentlemen of the privy chamber choose not to pass his messages to the king; Norris blocks Cromwell’s path, but when he tries to stop Henry's noble-born friend Brandon, the duke simply "knocks him aside, as if he were on crusade" shouting "Leave what you’re doing, Majesty."
- Cromwell’s humble birth excludes him from the top table, earns him the scorn of Charles Brandon ("you are a common man of no status") and bars him from representing the king at foreign courts; Rafe Sadler is happily married to Helen but cannot bring her to court because she is "lowly born and does not know court manners".
I was also struck by the different attitudes towards Katherine on her deathbed: the sincere grief of Chapuys, Henry's flippant callousness in denying his request to allow Mary to say goodbye, and Cromwell’s mixture of political sense and compassion as he keeps Mary away to prevent "oaths, deathbed promises" but helps Chapuys petition the king for permission to go himself, and discreetly helps Lady Willoughby to get herself admitted through a convenient accident.
& I loved that little detail you shared about the snowman, thank you!
In The New York Times today, Sunday, May 26, there is an article about a local historical society discovering a Tudor palace in their own town of Collywesten. It belonged to Henry VIII’s grandmother. Those of you in Great Britain probably already knew this. The countryside was beautiful. I tried to imagine Henry visiting there.
Here the link: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/science/2023/dec/06/tudor-collyweston-palace-northamptonshire-found-in-garden-by-amateur-archeologists
Back in Wolf Hall, when the king comes to visit the sick Thomas Cromwell, he talks about his grandmother Margaret Beaufort. How he was terrified of her and how she told him to put his faith in John Fisher.
Thanks Paula!
Like the chapter itself, I forgot entirely that this post was long while reading it — so absorbing. Thank you, as always, Simon!
Thanks Kristine!
Another Thomas More echo: in WH More advises TC: “Now you are a member of the council, I hope you tell the king what he ought to do, not merely what he can do. If the lion knew his own strength, it would be hard to rule him”. But TC chose his prince and arranged everything so that now Henry’s freedom is expected. Vaughan tells TC “Our king will be free. A free hand to do as he likes” and yet now TC realises: ‘That is what worries me, he thinks. This free hand’. TC has worked hard to free the lion, but soon the lion will eat him 🦁
Huh, I find Cromwell rather cold-blooded and also somewhat cruel when he points out to Catherine in #20 (p. 105 - 106) how differently her fate (and history) could have turned out if she had bowed to Henry's wishes. (Is it only me that feels this way?)
And although I am emotionally on Catherine's side (even if I find her unsympathetic in her narrow-minded and dogmatic religiosity), Cromwell is also right.
And this thought seems to have haunted her until shortly before her death, as Chapuys tells Cromwell in #21 (p. 177): […] But do you know,“ Chapuys says, „before I left her, she said a troubling thing to me. She said, „It might be all my fault. That I stood out against the king, when I could have made an honorable withdrawal and let him marry again.“ […]“
Yes, so chilling hearing Cromwell's words come back to him through Chapuys from a dying Katherine. He got under her skin, but didn't achieve anything by it I don't think.
Hi Simon, I’ve been with you since Jan 1 on W&P and when I saw you were planning to slow read another Mantel book in 2025, I decided to start Wolf Hall trilogy.. and I’m up to date now. Phew!
So just checking what day the weekly updates drop? I’ve listened to all the audios to date. Thanks
Great! Well done! Posts drop on Wednesdays.
Collyweston, my apologies for misspelling your name.