‘Oh, for Christ's sake!’ he says. ‘A lie is no less a lie because it is a thousand years old. Your undivided church has liked nothing better than persecuting its own members, burning them and hacking them apart when they stood by their own conscience, slashing their bellies open and feeding their guts to dogs. You call history to your aid, but what is history to you? It is a mirror that flatters Thomas More. But I have another mirror, I hold it up and it shows a vain and dangerous man, and when I turn it about it shows a killer, for you will drag down with you God knows how many, who will only have the suffering, and not your martyr's gratification.' This, for me, is Cromwell at his most satisfying! But, as Moore proves, the best argument in the world can have no effect on fanatics. He will not turn from the mirror that flatters...
The quote of the week is my favorite in the whole trilogy, too. One paragraph that reaches out to encompass all the weird and wild spirits of England that Cromwell and Co. are trying to sweep into a superstitious past while they move into the future. I'm not entirely sure they were successful in doing so.
I wonder if part of the reason Cromwell is so desirous of More taking the oath is that he fears what would happen if More died for his refusal? He can see what great influence Wolsey has on Henry from beyond the grave (especially because Wolsey is beyond the grave, in fact) and he must wonder what kind of influence More might have in that state - probably a kind worse for both the king and the country, at least in Cromwell's eyes. As you point out, More does exercise power after his death: he becomes a saint, and Cromwell becomes known as Henry's unscrupulous fixer. Does Cromwell see it coming, in a way?
I think, given the time period, it was foolish for More not to take the oath. He had a family to watch and protect and back then that was a major responsibility you didn’t throw away if you had the choice. He may have felt strongly about sticking with his principles, but his family needed him and this act of defiance makes him look more than a little selfish.
As there was a smattering of death and beheadings in this discussion and keeping in mind we are looking at Crumb through Ms. M’s eyes, did he not know that the beast was ever present at his heels? Did he not witness the souring of the king in general? Hubris thy name is Crumb??
I hoped, when I was reading this week’s budget, that you would mention that wonderful passage, and (of course) you did (in Quote of the Week)! It put me somewhat in mind of Susanna Clarke’s *Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell*, which imagines early nineteenth-century Britain as still in the grip of faery and the Raven King. I loved Clarke’s tale, not that I believe in fairies any more than I believe in ghosts, but because of the consistency of her vision…. Hilary Mantel was always able to do this (and from long before Susanna Clarke’s work was published), and it is a rare skill. The main thing I want I say here is how much I appreciate how you, Simon, have been tracing and illuminating these passages all the way through this volume. It’s the fourth time I have read it, and I never really noticed it as a theme until you forced my attention to it. So, thank you once again!
Here is an example of Mantel at her best as a writer. Lady Shelton enters the room and gives Cromwell a look that is described by its effect.
"Her eyes sweep over him, assessing; the air crackles with tension. How do women do that? One could learn it, perhaps; he feels rather than sees his son back off..."
Even as he's put back on his heels by that look, ever-practical Cromwell's wondering how he can acquire this talent.
Gregory is useful to the plot as a kind of straight man. Cromwell has to explain to Gregory, we also get to hear it. All the ladies love Gregory and want to eat him up like a sugar plum. He's the counterpoint to Anne Cromwell, who should have been a boy- maybe Gregory should have been a girl. The young women of Cromwell's household are not straitly kept: they are useful to him because they can go where boys can't. I keep thinking of Jo and Eliza Barton- "I do not think you have the sense of it, Dame Eliza. You are going to the Tower, and I am going home to my dinner."
I found this section very emotional and quite hard to read. The breaking down of Fisher. The breaking down of Elizabeth Barton. Cromwell actively trying to ensnare Katherine. True colours are finally showing and Cromwell is no longer simply a hardworking, family loving man, but the murderer he looks like. I loved More getting the better of him. I also enjoyed the irony of all the worry about Mary not having a fire. Don’t worry lads, she’ll light one or two of her own. But most telling I thought was Cromwell saying that Henry forgave Charles Brandon when he crossed him (and therefore, will forgive him, Cromwell). I thought this showed Cromwell overstepping. He is NOT Charles Brandon, either in his lifelong friendship with Henry or, more importantly, in his family name and rank. This is TC starting to believe his own press, which is always dangerous.
"Summer arrives with no intermission for spring, promptly on a Monday morning, like a new servant with a shining face: 13th April". I was struck by this date, as I am reading this chapter 490 years later, on another summerish April 13, with hay fever season just kicking in. I love how masterfully this chapter dwells on the vulnerability associated with power: Cromwell is at the height of his career, but he never really relaxes, knowing better than to take things for granted; More chooses posthumous glory over life and love; Rafe chooses love over status (and he can afford it); Mary chooses pain over comfort, while patiently waiting for her time to come; Anne fights a fight she can’t win.
Almost 500 years later and the games of power are still pretty much the same.
Enjoyed your tangents on this read Simon, delving into the characters of folklore. When reading this chapter I will admit I had tears in my eyes at the part where Cromwell pictures Anne stating "I choose Rafe". Yes the dead may still influence the future but there is also the deep loss of all they missed out on and what could have been if only.
My reason for getting to this section late is rather ironic - I started reading Diarmaid MacCulloch's Cromwell biography and have been unable to put it down... This is another great week's reading though - so much packed into both the book chapter and your notes. Thank you for the background on Malekin, Hob etc!
I enjoyed how Henry’s instant focus on the church’s jewels (“Gem-studded himself, he thinks of the kind of wealth you can weigh”) echoed Cromwell’s much earlier decision to tell Norfolk that he traded cloth because “the duke wouldn’t understand trading in money”. I was inclined to believe Cromwell’s description of Henry as an excited child running ahead of his adviser though - perhaps because I loved the mental image of “picking up a chisel and gouging the sapphire eyes out of saints.”
I also really liked the passage focusing on how “the gentlemen of England apply for places in his household now, for their sons and nephews and wards, thinking they will learn statecraft with him”. His care for these potentially useful young men reminds me of his (bet-hedging!) kindness to Mary: “He takes it seriously, the trust placed in him; he takes gently from the hands of these noisy young persons their daggers, their pens, and he talks to them, finding out behind the passion and pride of young men of fifteen or twenty what they are really worth, what they value and would value under duress.”
Also, I think Cristophe has narrowly edged Uncle Norfolk off the top spot in my personal league table of blasphemous obscenities with his “gutter French” outburst of “Oh by the hairy balls of Jesus”.
Also, thanks for the beautiful timing of this section! I’m reading events of 15th April on the evening of the 14th. Just a few centuries getting in the way. Bravo Simon 👏👏
‘Oh, for Christ's sake!’ he says. ‘A lie is no less a lie because it is a thousand years old. Your undivided church has liked nothing better than persecuting its own members, burning them and hacking them apart when they stood by their own conscience, slashing their bellies open and feeding their guts to dogs. You call history to your aid, but what is history to you? It is a mirror that flatters Thomas More. But I have another mirror, I hold it up and it shows a vain and dangerous man, and when I turn it about it shows a killer, for you will drag down with you God knows how many, who will only have the suffering, and not your martyr's gratification.' This, for me, is Cromwell at his most satisfying! But, as Moore proves, the best argument in the world can have no effect on fanatics. He will not turn from the mirror that flatters...
The quote of the week is my favorite in the whole trilogy, too. One paragraph that reaches out to encompass all the weird and wild spirits of England that Cromwell and Co. are trying to sweep into a superstitious past while they move into the future. I'm not entirely sure they were successful in doing so.
I wonder if part of the reason Cromwell is so desirous of More taking the oath is that he fears what would happen if More died for his refusal? He can see what great influence Wolsey has on Henry from beyond the grave (especially because Wolsey is beyond the grave, in fact) and he must wonder what kind of influence More might have in that state - probably a kind worse for both the king and the country, at least in Cromwell's eyes. As you point out, More does exercise power after his death: he becomes a saint, and Cromwell becomes known as Henry's unscrupulous fixer. Does Cromwell see it coming, in a way?
I think, given the time period, it was foolish for More not to take the oath. He had a family to watch and protect and back then that was a major responsibility you didn’t throw away if you had the choice. He may have felt strongly about sticking with his principles, but his family needed him and this act of defiance makes him look more than a little selfish.
As there was a smattering of death and beheadings in this discussion and keeping in mind we are looking at Crumb through Ms. M’s eyes, did he not know that the beast was ever present at his heels? Did he not witness the souring of the king in general? Hubris thy name is Crumb??
I hoped, when I was reading this week’s budget, that you would mention that wonderful passage, and (of course) you did (in Quote of the Week)! It put me somewhat in mind of Susanna Clarke’s *Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell*, which imagines early nineteenth-century Britain as still in the grip of faery and the Raven King. I loved Clarke’s tale, not that I believe in fairies any more than I believe in ghosts, but because of the consistency of her vision…. Hilary Mantel was always able to do this (and from long before Susanna Clarke’s work was published), and it is a rare skill. The main thing I want I say here is how much I appreciate how you, Simon, have been tracing and illuminating these passages all the way through this volume. It’s the fourth time I have read it, and I never really noticed it as a theme until you forced my attention to it. So, thank you once again!
Here is an example of Mantel at her best as a writer. Lady Shelton enters the room and gives Cromwell a look that is described by its effect.
"Her eyes sweep over him, assessing; the air crackles with tension. How do women do that? One could learn it, perhaps; he feels rather than sees his son back off..."
Even as he's put back on his heels by that look, ever-practical Cromwell's wondering how he can acquire this talent.
Gregory is useful to the plot as a kind of straight man. Cromwell has to explain to Gregory, we also get to hear it. All the ladies love Gregory and want to eat him up like a sugar plum. He's the counterpoint to Anne Cromwell, who should have been a boy- maybe Gregory should have been a girl. The young women of Cromwell's household are not straitly kept: they are useful to him because they can go where boys can't. I keep thinking of Jo and Eliza Barton- "I do not think you have the sense of it, Dame Eliza. You are going to the Tower, and I am going home to my dinner."
Ruthless!
I found this section very emotional and quite hard to read. The breaking down of Fisher. The breaking down of Elizabeth Barton. Cromwell actively trying to ensnare Katherine. True colours are finally showing and Cromwell is no longer simply a hardworking, family loving man, but the murderer he looks like. I loved More getting the better of him. I also enjoyed the irony of all the worry about Mary not having a fire. Don’t worry lads, she’ll light one or two of her own. But most telling I thought was Cromwell saying that Henry forgave Charles Brandon when he crossed him (and therefore, will forgive him, Cromwell). I thought this showed Cromwell overstepping. He is NOT Charles Brandon, either in his lifelong friendship with Henry or, more importantly, in his family name and rank. This is TC starting to believe his own press, which is always dangerous.
"Summer arrives with no intermission for spring, promptly on a Monday morning, like a new servant with a shining face: 13th April". I was struck by this date, as I am reading this chapter 490 years later, on another summerish April 13, with hay fever season just kicking in. I love how masterfully this chapter dwells on the vulnerability associated with power: Cromwell is at the height of his career, but he never really relaxes, knowing better than to take things for granted; More chooses posthumous glory over life and love; Rafe chooses love over status (and he can afford it); Mary chooses pain over comfort, while patiently waiting for her time to come; Anne fights a fight she can’t win.
Almost 500 years later and the games of power are still pretty much the same.
It’s not one of TC’s lines but I can’t help but feel it makes a catchy alternative title: Wolf Hall or “efficacious persuasions” 🤣
Enjoyed your tangents on this read Simon, delving into the characters of folklore. When reading this chapter I will admit I had tears in my eyes at the part where Cromwell pictures Anne stating "I choose Rafe". Yes the dead may still influence the future but there is also the deep loss of all they missed out on and what could have been if only.
My reason for getting to this section late is rather ironic - I started reading Diarmaid MacCulloch's Cromwell biography and have been unable to put it down... This is another great week's reading though - so much packed into both the book chapter and your notes. Thank you for the background on Malekin, Hob etc!
I enjoyed how Henry’s instant focus on the church’s jewels (“Gem-studded himself, he thinks of the kind of wealth you can weigh”) echoed Cromwell’s much earlier decision to tell Norfolk that he traded cloth because “the duke wouldn’t understand trading in money”. I was inclined to believe Cromwell’s description of Henry as an excited child running ahead of his adviser though - perhaps because I loved the mental image of “picking up a chisel and gouging the sapphire eyes out of saints.”
I also really liked the passage focusing on how “the gentlemen of England apply for places in his household now, for their sons and nephews and wards, thinking they will learn statecraft with him”. His care for these potentially useful young men reminds me of his (bet-hedging!) kindness to Mary: “He takes it seriously, the trust placed in him; he takes gently from the hands of these noisy young persons their daggers, their pens, and he talks to them, finding out behind the passion and pride of young men of fifteen or twenty what they are really worth, what they value and would value under duress.”
Also, I think Cristophe has narrowly edged Uncle Norfolk off the top spot in my personal league table of blasphemous obscenities with his “gutter French” outburst of “Oh by the hairy balls of Jesus”.
Also, thanks for the beautiful timing of this section! I’m reading events of 15th April on the evening of the 14th. Just a few centuries getting in the way. Bravo Simon 👏👏