You can feel all the different timelines that could be sprouting, multiverses being born, as we'd say today. A world were the queen burned. A world where the king died. A world were a Boleyn heir was born. We're marching inexorably on the timeline we know so well, but wouldn't that be fun, to venture on another branch and see what happens there?
Oh my, just half a chapter, 36 pages, but so much happening! "Where protocol fails, it is war to the knife." It gets quickly very dangerous if you remove Henry from the chessboard. "And Norfolk buzzing from side to side, an angered wasp" (🤭)- at least good old Norfolk makes me chuckle. He is a constant in this.
The character of Lady Jane Roachford, I don't know, she is always painted like this, gets some of the blame for what will happen and her role in this is not even proven or is it?
And Gregory, there is more to him that the people around him see in him. The father-son relationship is something I keep thinking more and more about.
A third of a chapter, but yes so much. Not many meals though!
I think Mantel wrote about Lady Rochford. She said that she inevitably (over) emphasised Rochford's role by leaving out some other informers. So much of this story is about rumour and of course we don't know how much Rochford made up just to frame the Boleyns. Ah but we are getting ahead of ourselves!
Poor Gregory. He's not as dim as his father thinks is he? I feel like he sees the world quite clearly and just prefers not to be in it, at least not fully. Who can blame him? I'd rather live in stories too.
Who can blame him indeed. If I had to choose between King Arthur's Court and King Henry's, I'm taking Arthur :) Doesn't his dad always say to choose your prince?
The scene of the King's fall at the joust has stayed with me since I read it years ago. Everyone jockeying for position immediately is wild. (More of things being a contest and not a play this time around as you pointed out). And Cromwell daring to touch him is such a call back to Wolf Hall. But that moment when he wonders if he should "quit the scene." I wonder what the world would look like had he disappeared. Where he might have popped up.
And then the sadness of the king being his only friend. What a dangerous realization. A terrible place to be stuck.
I liked the overview of the old knight's story. I hadn't looked at it that closely. I'm glad you did :)
The last two chapters the book really took wing after what felt to me like a lot of re-introduction (due to reading right away after WH). I've really appreciated your guidance Simon, both as a way to savor the story and to see themes I've missed. Bravo!
I still cannot get over the Seymour menfolk plotting with Crumb to pimp Jane to the king. But then I guess the Boleyn men were doing the same thing with both Mary and Anne some time ago. “Family values,” indeed!
For the power players, nothing seems to matter except advancing the interests of the Family. Women, children, anyone really, they were all just pawns to be moved, or sacrificed if that might get the Family closer to the King.
I was amused to read about the courtesan's chopines, (platform shoes so elevated that noble women typically needed two servants on either side to steady them) evidently, they were a famously comical sight during Cromwell's time and for a good while after. Mantell describes a past that is so relatable and at the same time so alien. I'm sure I never would have thought to even question "Arthur's Cobblers". Your eye for detail is excellent Simon
I do love the ongoing theme of the blurred lines between fact and fiction, truth and lies, memories and misunderstandings. How are events, big and small, remembered? Depends who you are, it seems, that is doing the remembering.
This is my third read of Bodies and I'm enjoying it much more this time round. So much happens in this chapter - the fire, Henry's 'death', Anne's miscarriage. The thing that jumps out for me though is Cromwell's full realisation of how vulnerable he is without Henry. Will he now take steps to change that? There are so many moments in this story where the direction could have changed and Cromwell's end could have been different (when we get to Mirror I will be screaming this at the pages).
Another scene sticks in my head, I'm not sure if its this chapter or the one before, where Cromwell is present when the Seymours are discussing Jane and how she should behave with the king. It is hard to reconcile liking a man who sees nothing wrong with about viewing a woman as a commodity, as though her body is not her own and her opinion matters not one bit. Would he have done this with his own daughters? I've said this before about Cromwell, I love him but I don't think I should.
I love the fact that "Dr Chramuel" was a real mistake made at the time - thank you for the background info on this!
The dramatic events of this week really hammer home how precarious everyone's position is now: Jane Rochford's hints about Anne's infidelity are becoming less subtle and even Henry is questioning whether his marriage would be valid if he had been seduced by charms or spells; the pandemonium that ensues when Henry is thought dead and everyone races to lay hands on a potential heir (or three!) highlights the extreme fragility of the Tudor dynasty; and of course Cromwell himself realises "take Henry away and I have nothing".
Thank you also for pointing out the parallel between Cromwell's extended reminiscence here about the old knight in Venice and his previous reliving of the execution of Joan Boughton, both memorable passages that shed new light on how Mantel's Cromwell thinks. So much of what is said about tournaments is applicable to life at Henry’s court: I liked "don't push your luck, he said, when fortune's star is shining, because the next minute, it isn't." The advice that "your love of glory must conquer your will to survive" seems to have taken root - when told of the king’s 'death', Cromwell does not hesitate for long, although he sees the opportunity to swerve: "Whether, now, to go forward to try to seize command, or to seize this moment, perhaps the last moment, to quit the scene".
Another thing that caught my attention this week was Cromwell's observation that "Account books form a narrative as engaging as any tale of sea monsters or cannibals". This felt to me like a peek behind the curtain at Mantel’s writing process, as Cromwell scours these apparently dry texts and weighs evidence for alternative narratives about Katherine’s life and his own. "You wonder what else you have always believed, believed without foundation." (Now that you've pointed out the fallibility of Cromwell’s memory, I'm seeing it everywhere!)
Finally, once again this slow read has me noticing details in these richly textured books that would normally pass me by, in this case the yellow scarf worn by the "expensive whore" in Cromwell's memory echoing the comment on Anne’s yellow dress earlier that although the fashion for yellow started amongst the wealthy, "by the time of Anne’s debut it had slid down the scale abroad" and yellow bodices could be seen in brothels.
The image that Fitz paints of Boleyns calling their own name outside the tent “like cuckoos” has stuck with me, along with Uncle Norfolk’s “Me, me, me!” It makes me think of the late legend Bernard Hill’s portrayal of Norfolk in the WH miniseries. The line feels grandiose and almost comical when said aloud, and somehow that’s fitting for Uncle Norfolk!
You can feel all the different timelines that could be sprouting, multiverses being born, as we'd say today. A world were the queen burned. A world where the king died. A world were a Boleyn heir was born. We're marching inexorably on the timeline we know so well, but wouldn't that be fun, to venture on another branch and see what happens there?
By the way, the fresco that Cromwell saw in Venice should be this one https://arthive.com/res/media/img/oy1000/work/f9a/649113@2x.jpg https://artslife.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/Giorgione-Nuda-1.jpg "La Nuda", the naked one, by Giorgione. It used to be on the walls of Fondaco dei Tedeschi (a palace that literally translates to "the German warehouse"), by 1760 it was so degraded that they had to cut out what was left of it, it's preserved inside the Gallerie dell'Accademia museum now.
Ah brilliant! I did wonder whether it was real but didn't have time to go digging. Thank you!
Very cool. I was curious about that as well. Thanks for tracking it down :)
Yes, what a wonderful take! Thanks also for the link to the fresco.
Oh my, just half a chapter, 36 pages, but so much happening! "Where protocol fails, it is war to the knife." It gets quickly very dangerous if you remove Henry from the chessboard. "And Norfolk buzzing from side to side, an angered wasp" (🤭)- at least good old Norfolk makes me chuckle. He is a constant in this.
The character of Lady Jane Roachford, I don't know, she is always painted like this, gets some of the blame for what will happen and her role in this is not even proven or is it?
And Gregory, there is more to him that the people around him see in him. The father-son relationship is something I keep thinking more and more about.
A third of a chapter, but yes so much. Not many meals though!
I think Mantel wrote about Lady Rochford. She said that she inevitably (over) emphasised Rochford's role by leaving out some other informers. So much of this story is about rumour and of course we don't know how much Rochford made up just to frame the Boleyns. Ah but we are getting ahead of ourselves!
I didn't pay much attention to Gregory on my original read, but he's a delight this time around.
Poor Gregory. He's not as dim as his father thinks is he? I feel like he sees the world quite clearly and just prefers not to be in it, at least not fully. Who can blame him? I'd rather live in stories too.
Who can blame him indeed. If I had to choose between King Arthur's Court and King Henry's, I'm taking Arthur :) Doesn't his dad always say to choose your prince?
The scene of the King's fall at the joust has stayed with me since I read it years ago. Everyone jockeying for position immediately is wild. (More of things being a contest and not a play this time around as you pointed out). And Cromwell daring to touch him is such a call back to Wolf Hall. But that moment when he wonders if he should "quit the scene." I wonder what the world would look like had he disappeared. Where he might have popped up.
And then the sadness of the king being his only friend. What a dangerous realization. A terrible place to be stuck.
I liked the overview of the old knight's story. I hadn't looked at it that closely. I'm glad you did :)
The last two chapters the book really took wing after what felt to me like a lot of re-introduction (due to reading right away after WH). I've really appreciated your guidance Simon, both as a way to savor the story and to see themes I've missed. Bravo!
I still cannot get over the Seymour menfolk plotting with Crumb to pimp Jane to the king. But then I guess the Boleyn men were doing the same thing with both Mary and Anne some time ago. “Family values,” indeed!
For the power players, nothing seems to matter except advancing the interests of the Family. Women, children, anyone really, they were all just pawns to be moved, or sacrificed if that might get the Family closer to the King.
Yes and Crumb was so critical of Boleyn at the beginning of the Wolf Hall book for doing the same with Mary and Anne. And now he is no better!
I was amused to read about the courtesan's chopines, (platform shoes so elevated that noble women typically needed two servants on either side to steady them) evidently, they were a famously comical sight during Cromwell's time and for a good while after. Mantell describes a past that is so relatable and at the same time so alien. I'm sure I never would have thought to even question "Arthur's Cobblers". Your eye for detail is excellent Simon
I went searching about the shoes, but didn't pause over Arthur's Cobblers. I'm glad Simon called it out.
I do love the ongoing theme of the blurred lines between fact and fiction, truth and lies, memories and misunderstandings. How are events, big and small, remembered? Depends who you are, it seems, that is doing the remembering.
This is my third read of Bodies and I'm enjoying it much more this time round. So much happens in this chapter - the fire, Henry's 'death', Anne's miscarriage. The thing that jumps out for me though is Cromwell's full realisation of how vulnerable he is without Henry. Will he now take steps to change that? There are so many moments in this story where the direction could have changed and Cromwell's end could have been different (when we get to Mirror I will be screaming this at the pages).
Another scene sticks in my head, I'm not sure if its this chapter or the one before, where Cromwell is present when the Seymours are discussing Jane and how she should behave with the king. It is hard to reconcile liking a man who sees nothing wrong with about viewing a woman as a commodity, as though her body is not her own and her opinion matters not one bit. Would he have done this with his own daughters? I've said this before about Cromwell, I love him but I don't think I should.
I love the fact that "Dr Chramuel" was a real mistake made at the time - thank you for the background info on this!
The dramatic events of this week really hammer home how precarious everyone's position is now: Jane Rochford's hints about Anne's infidelity are becoming less subtle and even Henry is questioning whether his marriage would be valid if he had been seduced by charms or spells; the pandemonium that ensues when Henry is thought dead and everyone races to lay hands on a potential heir (or three!) highlights the extreme fragility of the Tudor dynasty; and of course Cromwell himself realises "take Henry away and I have nothing".
Thank you also for pointing out the parallel between Cromwell's extended reminiscence here about the old knight in Venice and his previous reliving of the execution of Joan Boughton, both memorable passages that shed new light on how Mantel's Cromwell thinks. So much of what is said about tournaments is applicable to life at Henry’s court: I liked "don't push your luck, he said, when fortune's star is shining, because the next minute, it isn't." The advice that "your love of glory must conquer your will to survive" seems to have taken root - when told of the king’s 'death', Cromwell does not hesitate for long, although he sees the opportunity to swerve: "Whether, now, to go forward to try to seize command, or to seize this moment, perhaps the last moment, to quit the scene".
Another thing that caught my attention this week was Cromwell's observation that "Account books form a narrative as engaging as any tale of sea monsters or cannibals". This felt to me like a peek behind the curtain at Mantel’s writing process, as Cromwell scours these apparently dry texts and weighs evidence for alternative narratives about Katherine’s life and his own. "You wonder what else you have always believed, believed without foundation." (Now that you've pointed out the fallibility of Cromwell’s memory, I'm seeing it everywhere!)
Finally, once again this slow read has me noticing details in these richly textured books that would normally pass me by, in this case the yellow scarf worn by the "expensive whore" in Cromwell's memory echoing the comment on Anne’s yellow dress earlier that although the fashion for yellow started amongst the wealthy, "by the time of Anne’s debut it had slid down the scale abroad" and yellow bodices could be seen in brothels.
What a week! Enthralling. I think the precarious house of cards is about to come tumbling down.
The image that Fitz paints of Boleyns calling their own name outside the tent “like cuckoos” has stuck with me, along with Uncle Norfolk’s “Me, me, me!” It makes me think of the late legend Bernard Hill’s portrayal of Norfolk in the WH miniseries. The line feels grandiose and almost comical when said aloud, and somehow that’s fitting for Uncle Norfolk!
Cromwell seems more natural in Venice than he does in England.