I've been meaning to write a testimonial for the last few weeks, so here it is:
When I first read the Cromwell trilogy, I grew to love it more with each book. But I loved it alone. Sure, I knew it was popular and that it had won all sorts of awards, but I was still in my own little Crumb bubble.
Getting to experience it again with other people who love it or are learning to love it brings out a whole new side of the story. I'm seeing things I hadn't noticed before and learning more about that time--the paintings are a great addition and further bring the world to life. The passion behind these posts is obvious and of such high caliber that I eagerly look forward to it each week. I will remember this year of slow reading for many years to come.
It was so painful to read that exchange between Gregory and Cromwell. It's the first real disconnect they've had. This last book is full of surprisingly painful encounters: Dorothea, Cromwell slowly losing his standing with Henry, this exchange with Gregory. No wonder Cromwell gets so lost in his memories. They must be more comforting than the reality in front of him.
This scene cuts me up, even more than the Dorothea scene. Nothing feels safe now, even his most cherished relationship with his son. Hilary Mantel does such an incredible job at unravelling Cromwell over these hundreds of pages, while he continues to climb.
Unravelling is the right word. This last book is so painful because the wounds are coming from surprising places. It is so sad to read, knowing how Cromwell's life ends.
Yes, I found that exchange between Gregory and Cromwell really surprising. We've never seen Gregory stand up to Cromwell in that way. But the saddest part was Cromwell's hurt - his surprise that Gregory would imagine that he would interfere with his wife.
I was also blown away by the father-son conversation; I got so used to reading everything from Cromwell's perspective that when Mantel presents someone else's perspective, i am as surprised by it as Cromwell.
Poor Jane. I liked very much how Mantel portrayed her, not the dull boring woman, but her Jane had much more depth and was interesting.
I can't write a food post this week (there is just the slaughterhouse scene). The whole slaughterhouse scene and the connection with the executed victims have thoroughly spoilt my appetite.
It really is masterful how Mantel sets us up to be as shocked as Cromwell. She keeps making us his ally then showing us another view. Poor Cromwell is rowing for his life in every relationship.
I'll miss your post this week, but I'm with you. The slaughterhouse scene was a lot.
We know Cromwell is in trouble because he's thinking arrogant thoughts. His idea that the King would make him regent is borderline nuts. And then after Jane dies, he thinks he would have managed her pregnancy better. Where is the Cromwell of "pick your prince" or the Cromwell that crossed his arms in obeisance to Henry?
You know, I don't think that was arrogance exactly. That was desperation. He knows how weak his position is ("If we can get through next winter"). Henry is sick and may die at any time, leaving Cromwell at the mercy of the Howards. His attempt to secure Lady Mary's friendship appears to have failed. We could forgive him for craving a piece of paper from the king making him regent, securing his life. As Walter said, "I am rowing for my life."
As for Jane, I think that's the old Cromwell, always believing he can do things better than others. He's arrogant for sure, but he's always been arrogant, or self-assured.
Yes, Cromwell is desperate but he allows his desperation to make him think bold and unrealistic thoughts that I don't think he would have thought before. It's one thing for him to see that turning boxes around will make transport easier. Quite another to assume he's more capable of a safer birth.
This is the magic of this experience. Being able to talk about Cromwell as someone we know!
Indeed! Although he has good reason to be unrealistic: "So much has happened already, that the most credulous child would never believe." – I can also imagine he's read books on midwifery in Italian that makes him question English methods.
There were mutterings at the time that Jane died for lack of care on Henry's part, so I think this notion of Cromwell's is merely echoing the rumors of the time.
I enjoyed this read as an end to my week and followed up directly with this (as always) in-depth account. Like others have said my heart broke when Gregory had the conversation with Cromwell, urging his dad to stay away from his wife. I could feel Cromwell's pain at the distrust of his son. My heart also broke at Jane's death. How well Mantel describes the pain and endurance woman had to go through (and still do). I wonder if the health problems she herself openly spoke about which challenged her made her write so elequently about both Jane and Lady Lisle. The closer we get to the end of the book, the harder it gets. Thank you for the additional information, enjoyed the interview and the various pictures of Henry. This slow read is a balm.
I've been meaning to write a testimonial for the last few weeks, so here it is:
When I first read the Cromwell trilogy, I grew to love it more with each book. But I loved it alone. Sure, I knew it was popular and that it had won all sorts of awards, but I was still in my own little Crumb bubble.
Getting to experience it again with other people who love it or are learning to love it brings out a whole new side of the story. I'm seeing things I hadn't noticed before and learning more about that time--the paintings are a great addition and further bring the world to life. The passion behind these posts is obvious and of such high caliber that I eagerly look forward to it each week. I will remember this year of slow reading for many years to come.
And it's just plain ol' fashioned fun :)
Thanks so much, Master Haisell!
Thanks Kailani! That's very kind. I love how this has been a space both of first timers and re-readers, getting to share our love of these books.
It was so painful to read that exchange between Gregory and Cromwell. It's the first real disconnect they've had. This last book is full of surprisingly painful encounters: Dorothea, Cromwell slowly losing his standing with Henry, this exchange with Gregory. No wonder Cromwell gets so lost in his memories. They must be more comforting than the reality in front of him.
This scene cuts me up, even more than the Dorothea scene. Nothing feels safe now, even his most cherished relationship with his son. Hilary Mantel does such an incredible job at unravelling Cromwell over these hundreds of pages, while he continues to climb.
Unravelling is the right word. This last book is so painful because the wounds are coming from surprising places. It is so sad to read, knowing how Cromwell's life ends.
Yes, I found that exchange between Gregory and Cromwell really surprising. We've never seen Gregory stand up to Cromwell in that way. But the saddest part was Cromwell's hurt - his surprise that Gregory would imagine that he would interfere with his wife.
Yes. The scene with Gregory makes me so sad. Even Gregory doesn't see him the way he sees himself.
I was also blown away by the father-son conversation; I got so used to reading everything from Cromwell's perspective that when Mantel presents someone else's perspective, i am as surprised by it as Cromwell.
Poor Jane. I liked very much how Mantel portrayed her, not the dull boring woman, but her Jane had much more depth and was interesting.
I can't write a food post this week (there is just the slaughterhouse scene). The whole slaughterhouse scene and the connection with the executed victims have thoroughly spoilt my appetite.
This is very understandable!
It really is masterful how Mantel sets us up to be as shocked as Cromwell. She keeps making us his ally then showing us another view. Poor Cromwell is rowing for his life in every relationship.
I'll miss your post this week, but I'm with you. The slaughterhouse scene was a lot.
We know Cromwell is in trouble because he's thinking arrogant thoughts. His idea that the King would make him regent is borderline nuts. And then after Jane dies, he thinks he would have managed her pregnancy better. Where is the Cromwell of "pick your prince" or the Cromwell that crossed his arms in obeisance to Henry?
You know, I don't think that was arrogance exactly. That was desperation. He knows how weak his position is ("If we can get through next winter"). Henry is sick and may die at any time, leaving Cromwell at the mercy of the Howards. His attempt to secure Lady Mary's friendship appears to have failed. We could forgive him for craving a piece of paper from the king making him regent, securing his life. As Walter said, "I am rowing for my life."
As for Jane, I think that's the old Cromwell, always believing he can do things better than others. He's arrogant for sure, but he's always been arrogant, or self-assured.
Yes, Cromwell is desperate but he allows his desperation to make him think bold and unrealistic thoughts that I don't think he would have thought before. It's one thing for him to see that turning boxes around will make transport easier. Quite another to assume he's more capable of a safer birth.
This is the magic of this experience. Being able to talk about Cromwell as someone we know!
Indeed! Although he has good reason to be unrealistic: "So much has happened already, that the most credulous child would never believe." – I can also imagine he's read books on midwifery in Italian that makes him question English methods.
There were mutterings at the time that Jane died for lack of care on Henry's part, so I think this notion of Cromwell's is merely echoing the rumors of the time.
Good point.
Queen Jane
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytN-yao3Ioo
Thanks, Rosie. Didn't know about this. The pedant in me can't help notice they've tagged the song with the wrong Jane!
I think there's reference in the text to ballads being written, I can't remember whether in this chapter or the last...
There is... Bess mentions it right at the end of the chapter.
I enjoyed this read as an end to my week and followed up directly with this (as always) in-depth account. Like others have said my heart broke when Gregory had the conversation with Cromwell, urging his dad to stay away from his wife. I could feel Cromwell's pain at the distrust of his son. My heart also broke at Jane's death. How well Mantel describes the pain and endurance woman had to go through (and still do). I wonder if the health problems she herself openly spoke about which challenged her made her write so elequently about both Jane and Lady Lisle. The closer we get to the end of the book, the harder it gets. Thank you for the additional information, enjoyed the interview and the various pictures of Henry. This slow read is a balm.