It strikes me how much fear is present in Mantel's evocation of the Tudor court. Henry to some extent fears his enemies outside England, but he is far more afraid of his own people, living and dead. He is afraid of his grandmother, of Queen Katherine, of Anne Boleyn, of Mary his daughter, and even of Thomas Cromwell, to whom he would, at the same time, give anything. Even Anne is afraid, Mary Boleyn says - "of every woman at court - have you looked at her, have you looked at her lately?"
It's odd, because one never thinks of either Henry or Anne as fearful people. Especially not Henry. But it makes perfect sense that they should have been so afraid.
It's a strong theme isn't it. Fear runs through everything, it's why the book is called Wolf Hall, because "man is wolf to man" and everyone fears being eaten alive. I do tend to think of Henry VIII as fearful: as thin-skinned, full of emotion. And Anne as watchful, sharp, keeping a list of her enemies. Both have paranoid tendencies which are exacerbated by the atmosphere at court.
I wonder whether I tended to think of Henry especially as not fearful because (in part) of all those portraits where he's staring down the viewer, looking as though he could gather up all his enemies and toss them over his shoulder. In which case, the paintings are still working as intended nearly 500 years later!
There’s a scene in the film of “A Man for All Seasons” where we see, very briefly, Anne Boleyn (played by a young Vanessa Redgrave). She is almost smiling, she is silent, but she looks *terrified*. I have never forgotten that moment—nor have I seen the film again to check what I thought saw (so ymmv), but it has informed how I think about her ever since. It’s informed how I think about much else too. How lucky I am to live in a place at a time when to be *terrified* is not a common mode for most people. Not uneasy, not nervous, *terrified*.
It’s the world of this trilogy, and Mantel isn’t wrong.
When reading A Place of Greater Safety I began to call Hilary Mantel a writer of Historical Terror. I think it sums up a lot of the atmosphere in her books. And it is how the reader feels by the end!
I fear that Hilary was frightened a lot of the time, what with her visions and then her health and the attendant gas-lighting.
When I read “APoGS” I felt that I now knew pretty much all I needed to know about the French Revvie (as Margaret Atwood calls it elsewhere on Substack); I am still not inclined to read anything else about it, though I expect it would be a Good Idea in a general way. But I would rather re-read APoGS here, with you and everyone else, as an encore.
This feels like the turning point in Cromwell's fate. He made his way into court listening to women: his wife's opinions, Mary B's intelligence, Anne's desires both stated and observed. Cromwell was once held in contrast to Norfolk who looked down on listening to women. Now, Cromwell didn't see Mary's pregnancy or departure coming. There will be so much more he doesn't see coming.
He won't find a wife, and he won't save himself "not unless, when a woman speaks to me, I actually listen.”
Yes, that's an interesting insight isn't it! In the previous chapter, he admits he didn't notice Helen Barre's subtle offer of companionship. His mind was already elsewhere. On the re-re-read I find myself taking note of every mistake and misstep.
This stood out to me, too. He seems to be moving so fast now that what he's missing really comes into play. I catch myself wanting to slow him down. Make him listen to Johane when she warns him of Henry's fear. He's not really even listening to Wolsey - whose "Do you think this is the tilting ground" was particularly striking.
It was jarring for me to read how little time has passed between the humblings of Thomas Boleyn by Wolsey in 1527 and now by Cromwell in 1534. It seems impossible for so much to have happened and changed in only seven years. That's a tribute to the rich density of the book and to Simon for all the valuable, supplemental information he gives us each week.
A lot has happened! Although I think actually the humbling of Thomas Boleyn is more like 1521, 1522, when the King is sleeping with Mary Boleyn, and Wolsey hasn't realised how important the Boleyns are yet. Cromwell tells him it might be more prudent to keep them on side.
The next book will concentrate on a much shorter time span of months rather than years. It will get very intense!
I've had the same sense about time in this read. How many big things happened in the span of a decade or so. And by the reach of a few key players. It's wild.
Wow-this section. I know we are headed to the block, but I feel like we just caught the express. The writing is a glorious gut punch. And yes, I do feel how lonely Crumb is now that his family is leaving the nest. He is proud of all that he has been able to do for them and himself but he is left with files, papers, business and a paranoid king as his BFF.
Mantel does an amazing job of evoking just how innovative and transformative Cromwell’s approach to government was, and on this reread I’m doubly struck by all the shadows and echoes of the present bureaucracies and technologies and autocracies—making it even more clear how little has really changed in our ambitions and abilities as a society.
Your quote of the week! 'The fate of peoples is made like this, two men in small rooms. Forget the coronations, the conclaves of cardinals, the pomp and processions. This is how the world changes: a counter pushed across a table, a pen stroke that alters the force of a phrase, a woman's sigh as she passes and leaves on the air a trail of orange flower or rosewater; her hand pulling close the bed curtain, the discreet sigh of flesh against flesh.'
When I talked about Wolf Hall on our podcast (https://strongsenseofplace.com/podcasts/2023-05-01-london/), that's the quote I chose to sum up the whole endeavor. It's so good — and a reminder that things are not so different now, eh?
In other news: the 14th century keep where Anne Boleyn lived in Paris is for sale! We could all chip in and buy it for just €950,000. Footnotes and Tangents party house! ;-)
'The 14th century keep comes complete with an dizzying spiral staircase spanning 5 floors, two crowned coats of arms engraved in the stone entrance hall, exterior walls punctured with arrow slits, and vaulted cellars that once led to underground tunnels beneath the castle. The price also includes a detached two storey house, a chestnut tree-lined driveway and an idyllic park that cover about 1,600m2. Not to mention 500 years of history.'
I am filled with anticipation (or is that dread?) to read the final instalment this week. Thank you Simon for fleshing out so much of the readings and with incredible imagery to go with. Until next week …. 😬
In the scene where Cromwell recalls More reading and covering words with his hands, I read it as a threat. That 'the dictionary' was just a cover ploy for what Cromwell suspects he was really reading... Tyndale perhaps? I thought what he was really saying was 'I know you More, you are not the saint you claim to be'
And thank you Simon for the green light to complete this masterpiece!
Oh interesting. I'm not sure about that, it was far too early for it to be Tyndale and More was only, what, fourteen? I think it was just that, a dictionary. It symbolised the gulf between the illiterate blacksmith boy and the Oxford scholar.
I love that this exchange keeps coming up. Cromwell still wants to know what More knows. What he missed as the blacksmith's son and the kitchen boy. I wonder if part of why he wants More to live is so that he can continue studying him. So he can put some more pieces together.
I think he knows More wins if he dies. He will be a martyr. More claims Cromwell understands him and he understands Cromwell, and that rattles Cromwell. He says he won't let the More family think they understand him. I think he would like to see More show contrition for what he has done to Cromwell's evangelical brothers. And he would like to know how such a learned man can be so destructive.
I agree - especially about wanting him to show contrition. Cromwell's not above revenge - and he knows More taking the oath is a bigger "get" than his death (and ultimate martyrdom). I just wonder how much of that blacksmith boy is still in there - wanting what the boy with the books knows.
But then Cromwell now has all the books. Although maybe not the time to read them. He is a great collector of books. And yes to revenge. He oozes revenge, especially against anyone who helped bring down Wolsey.
I also thought “dictionary” was a play on More’s claim that they were “words, just words,” but I wasn’t sure what he would be accusing him of reading. Maybe not a threat as much as gentle irony. @Simon what do you think of that?
It could well be. Maybe I like the idea of More curled up reading the dictionary to perfect his fine turns of phrase. Of course, at that age, Cromwell would have seen very few books.
One of my favorite things about Crumb is his long memory. He will not forget the men who mocked his beloved Wolsey, nor will he let go of the painful slight that he felt when little-boy More rebuffed his curiosity. I love that bit in the book — and I find the TV scene particularly poignant. I can't help but root for Crumb's revenge on all of them.
My quote of the week: “His predecessors will be those men, bishops for the most part, eminent in learning: those who lie down on their tombs, with their virtues in Latin engraved beneath. He is never more alive than when he twists the stem of this ripe fruit and snaps it from the tree”. It says so much about TC’s motivations, self perception, a kind of scorn. But also I think the encroaching loneliness, his home and family was once what made him alive but now only his position.
Another post well done and I was glad to see you made love one of the themes. It strikes me at times how Cromwell misses Liz, how he longs for another love and yet still takes no one. Sometimes I wonder would Cromwell be a different man if Liz and his girls had lived.
Your analysis of the quote of the week on “men in small rooms” was great, thank you. (“A fistful of Thomases” is such a fun phrase!) I enjoyed the labyrinth tangent too - I have been a fan of them ever since walking the one in Ely cathedral on a day out years ago.
I liked the way that the Cromwell’s rumination on Mary Boleyn’s intention to unpick her dead husband’s badges (“what use are a dead man and his devices?”) calls out a recurring theme - Cromwell himself (eventually!) having Wolsey’s coat of arms painted out on his walls, but then pointedly incorporating the choughs into his own coat of arms. The re-purposing of clothes also echoes through the story - in the previous chapter he noticed that Princess (Lady!) Mary’s former servants had her badge unpicked from their jackets and replaced with the king’s now that she is outranked by the baby Elizabeth, and much earlier there was that amazing passage about Wolsey’s scarlet being too good to waste (“Your eye will be taken by a crimson cushion or a patch of red on a banner or ensign. You will see a glimpse of them in a man’s inner sleeve or in the flash of a whore’s petticoat”).
The whole scene with Henry coming to dinner was astonishing - the startlingly human moments were beautifully described, especially his soft recounting of childhood memories and his fear of Margaret Beaufort, and as always I loved Alice and Jo: “You don't come to Austin Friars to look for shy little maids. I wonder our uncle doesn’t arm us.”
& now I'm caught up again, feeling optimistic that I might even cross the finish line of the first book in company with the rest of you!
It strikes me how much fear is present in Mantel's evocation of the Tudor court. Henry to some extent fears his enemies outside England, but he is far more afraid of his own people, living and dead. He is afraid of his grandmother, of Queen Katherine, of Anne Boleyn, of Mary his daughter, and even of Thomas Cromwell, to whom he would, at the same time, give anything. Even Anne is afraid, Mary Boleyn says - "of every woman at court - have you looked at her, have you looked at her lately?"
It's odd, because one never thinks of either Henry or Anne as fearful people. Especially not Henry. But it makes perfect sense that they should have been so afraid.
It's a strong theme isn't it. Fear runs through everything, it's why the book is called Wolf Hall, because "man is wolf to man" and everyone fears being eaten alive. I do tend to think of Henry VIII as fearful: as thin-skinned, full of emotion. And Anne as watchful, sharp, keeping a list of her enemies. Both have paranoid tendencies which are exacerbated by the atmosphere at court.
I wonder whether I tended to think of Henry especially as not fearful because (in part) of all those portraits where he's staring down the viewer, looking as though he could gather up all his enemies and toss them over his shoulder. In which case, the paintings are still working as intended nearly 500 years later!
Yes, don't trust the paintings!
There’s a scene in the film of “A Man for All Seasons” where we see, very briefly, Anne Boleyn (played by a young Vanessa Redgrave). She is almost smiling, she is silent, but she looks *terrified*. I have never forgotten that moment—nor have I seen the film again to check what I thought saw (so ymmv), but it has informed how I think about her ever since. It’s informed how I think about much else too. How lucky I am to live in a place at a time when to be *terrified* is not a common mode for most people. Not uneasy, not nervous, *terrified*.
It’s the world of this trilogy, and Mantel isn’t wrong.
When reading A Place of Greater Safety I began to call Hilary Mantel a writer of Historical Terror. I think it sums up a lot of the atmosphere in her books. And it is how the reader feels by the end!
I fear that Hilary was frightened a lot of the time, what with her visions and then her health and the attendant gas-lighting.
When I read “APoGS” I felt that I now knew pretty much all I needed to know about the French Revvie (as Margaret Atwood calls it elsewhere on Substack); I am still not inclined to read anything else about it, though I expect it would be a Good Idea in a general way. But I would rather re-read APoGS here, with you and everyone else, as an encore.
Let's do it next year! Ha, maybe we could get Margaret Atwood to join us.
This feels like the turning point in Cromwell's fate. He made his way into court listening to women: his wife's opinions, Mary B's intelligence, Anne's desires both stated and observed. Cromwell was once held in contrast to Norfolk who looked down on listening to women. Now, Cromwell didn't see Mary's pregnancy or departure coming. There will be so much more he doesn't see coming.
He won't find a wife, and he won't save himself "not unless, when a woman speaks to me, I actually listen.”
Yes, that's an interesting insight isn't it! In the previous chapter, he admits he didn't notice Helen Barre's subtle offer of companionship. His mind was already elsewhere. On the re-re-read I find myself taking note of every mistake and misstep.
This goes for me as well, with help from you and the other readers.
This stood out to me, too. He seems to be moving so fast now that what he's missing really comes into play. I catch myself wanting to slow him down. Make him listen to Johane when she warns him of Henry's fear. He's not really even listening to Wolsey - whose "Do you think this is the tilting ground" was particularly striking.
"It will remind Boleyn of the old days..."
It was jarring for me to read how little time has passed between the humblings of Thomas Boleyn by Wolsey in 1527 and now by Cromwell in 1534. It seems impossible for so much to have happened and changed in only seven years. That's a tribute to the rich density of the book and to Simon for all the valuable, supplemental information he gives us each week.
A lot has happened! Although I think actually the humbling of Thomas Boleyn is more like 1521, 1522, when the King is sleeping with Mary Boleyn, and Wolsey hasn't realised how important the Boleyns are yet. Cromwell tells him it might be more prudent to keep them on side.
The next book will concentrate on a much shorter time span of months rather than years. It will get very intense!
I've had the same sense about time in this read. How many big things happened in the span of a decade or so. And by the reach of a few key players. It's wild.
Wow-this section. I know we are headed to the block, but I feel like we just caught the express. The writing is a glorious gut punch. And yes, I do feel how lonely Crumb is now that his family is leaving the nest. He is proud of all that he has been able to do for them and himself but he is left with files, papers, business and a paranoid king as his BFF.
Well said.
Mantel does an amazing job of evoking just how innovative and transformative Cromwell’s approach to government was, and on this reread I’m doubly struck by all the shadows and echoes of the present bureaucracies and technologies and autocracies—making it even more clear how little has really changed in our ambitions and abilities as a society.
I think that's what makes this period so fascinating. It does feel like the birth of the modern world.
Even despite the fact that the pace of change both then and now was dizzying!
That Holbein drawing is amazing. And it's true, Cranach making everyone into pigs
Brilliant again, Simon. Thank you!
Your quote of the week! 'The fate of peoples is made like this, two men in small rooms. Forget the coronations, the conclaves of cardinals, the pomp and processions. This is how the world changes: a counter pushed across a table, a pen stroke that alters the force of a phrase, a woman's sigh as she passes and leaves on the air a trail of orange flower or rosewater; her hand pulling close the bed curtain, the discreet sigh of flesh against flesh.'
When I talked about Wolf Hall on our podcast (https://strongsenseofplace.com/podcasts/2023-05-01-london/), that's the quote I chose to sum up the whole endeavor. It's so good — and a reminder that things are not so different now, eh?
In other news: the 14th century keep where Anne Boleyn lived in Paris is for sale! We could all chip in and buy it for just €950,000. Footnotes and Tangents party house! ;-)
The photos are pretty sweet:
https://www.messynessychic.com/2024/04/19/property-of-the-week-anne-boleyns-14th-century-french-home/
'The 14th century keep comes complete with an dizzying spiral staircase spanning 5 floors, two crowned coats of arms engraved in the stone entrance hall, exterior walls punctured with arrow slits, and vaulted cellars that once led to underground tunnels beneath the castle. The price also includes a detached two storey house, a chestnut tree-lined driveway and an idyllic park that cover about 1,600m2. Not to mention 500 years of history.'
What an amazing property! Thanks for linking that. If I win Euromillions tonight I’m definitely investing in a F&T party house 😂🏰
Wow - those photos are great. What a find! Thanks for sharing :)
Absolutely beautiful property and that history! Who wouldn’t want to live there? 😍
I am filled with anticipation (or is that dread?) to read the final instalment this week. Thank you Simon for fleshing out so much of the readings and with incredible imagery to go with. Until next week …. 😬
In the scene where Cromwell recalls More reading and covering words with his hands, I read it as a threat. That 'the dictionary' was just a cover ploy for what Cromwell suspects he was really reading... Tyndale perhaps? I thought what he was really saying was 'I know you More, you are not the saint you claim to be'
And thank you Simon for the green light to complete this masterpiece!
Oh interesting. I'm not sure about that, it was far too early for it to be Tyndale and More was only, what, fourteen? I think it was just that, a dictionary. It symbolised the gulf between the illiterate blacksmith boy and the Oxford scholar.
I love that this exchange keeps coming up. Cromwell still wants to know what More knows. What he missed as the blacksmith's son and the kitchen boy. I wonder if part of why he wants More to live is so that he can continue studying him. So he can put some more pieces together.
I think he knows More wins if he dies. He will be a martyr. More claims Cromwell understands him and he understands Cromwell, and that rattles Cromwell. He says he won't let the More family think they understand him. I think he would like to see More show contrition for what he has done to Cromwell's evangelical brothers. And he would like to know how such a learned man can be so destructive.
I agree - especially about wanting him to show contrition. Cromwell's not above revenge - and he knows More taking the oath is a bigger "get" than his death (and ultimate martyrdom). I just wonder how much of that blacksmith boy is still in there - wanting what the boy with the books knows.
But then Cromwell now has all the books. Although maybe not the time to read them. He is a great collector of books. And yes to revenge. He oozes revenge, especially against anyone who helped bring down Wolsey.
That's true. He is now the boy with the books, isn't he?
That makes a lot more sense! My imagination runs wild with all that lies underneath what is actually said
I also thought “dictionary” was a play on More’s claim that they were “words, just words,” but I wasn’t sure what he would be accusing him of reading. Maybe not a threat as much as gentle irony. @Simon what do you think of that?
It could well be. Maybe I like the idea of More curled up reading the dictionary to perfect his fine turns of phrase. Of course, at that age, Cromwell would have seen very few books.
One of my favorite things about Crumb is his long memory. He will not forget the men who mocked his beloved Wolsey, nor will he let go of the painful slight that he felt when little-boy More rebuffed his curiosity. I love that bit in the book — and I find the TV scene particularly poignant. I can't help but root for Crumb's revenge on all of them.
My quote of the week: “His predecessors will be those men, bishops for the most part, eminent in learning: those who lie down on their tombs, with their virtues in Latin engraved beneath. He is never more alive than when he twists the stem of this ripe fruit and snaps it from the tree”. It says so much about TC’s motivations, self perception, a kind of scorn. But also I think the encroaching loneliness, his home and family was once what made him alive but now only his position.
Great quote!
Wonderful, Simon, every single point…
Another post well done and I was glad to see you made love one of the themes. It strikes me at times how Cromwell misses Liz, how he longs for another love and yet still takes no one. Sometimes I wonder would Cromwell be a different man if Liz and his girls had lived.
Your analysis of the quote of the week on “men in small rooms” was great, thank you. (“A fistful of Thomases” is such a fun phrase!) I enjoyed the labyrinth tangent too - I have been a fan of them ever since walking the one in Ely cathedral on a day out years ago.
I liked the way that the Cromwell’s rumination on Mary Boleyn’s intention to unpick her dead husband’s badges (“what use are a dead man and his devices?”) calls out a recurring theme - Cromwell himself (eventually!) having Wolsey’s coat of arms painted out on his walls, but then pointedly incorporating the choughs into his own coat of arms. The re-purposing of clothes also echoes through the story - in the previous chapter he noticed that Princess (Lady!) Mary’s former servants had her badge unpicked from their jackets and replaced with the king’s now that she is outranked by the baby Elizabeth, and much earlier there was that amazing passage about Wolsey’s scarlet being too good to waste (“Your eye will be taken by a crimson cushion or a patch of red on a banner or ensign. You will see a glimpse of them in a man’s inner sleeve or in the flash of a whore’s petticoat”).
The whole scene with Henry coming to dinner was astonishing - the startlingly human moments were beautifully described, especially his soft recounting of childhood memories and his fear of Margaret Beaufort, and as always I loved Alice and Jo: “You don't come to Austin Friars to look for shy little maids. I wonder our uncle doesn’t arm us.”
& now I'm caught up again, feeling optimistic that I might even cross the finish line of the first book in company with the rest of you!