I am very pleased to find the seductive Princess Bagration in this week‘s round-up! Her existence throws a new light at Andrei‘s relief at not being made a laughing-stock on account of any infidelities on Lise‘s part. Surely the St Petersburg tongues were all a-wag at Princess Bagration‘s exploits.
This week‘s reading has really brought home the brilliance of the slow read for this particular book. As a voracious and usually very fast reader, I would have felt myself hampered and bogged down in my pursuit of plot and excitement and would probably not have paid much attention to the cooking of kasha, dispensing of vodka and wisdom and drying of boots and foot-wrappers. Being made to stick with the characters while they‘re waiting is an experience that can only be had by reading so slowly (and in my case, repeatedly). And that‘s why I agree that War & Peace is more like actual life than like a novel or a history. Thanks again, Simon, for making this possible.
Yes, that tangent was new to me this year, and sheds some light on Andrei as well as Bagration. And yes, this is the sort of week when a slow read really excels. There's so much to notice in the spaces between the plot.
Oh, yes! All my life I have prided myself on reading quickly. However, that has its downsides because I know I would have careened through these chapters without really understanding them at all. I, too, have found myself re-reading a lot. I had to ask Simon in the chat to remind me why Bagration and his unit were there! So this reading, questioning, and re-reading has forced an understanding on me that is making this experience much deeper.
Yes we do seem to feel we have to read books quickly in our society. In the past I’ve been a very slow, inconsistent reads so never got sufficiently into a book to want to pick it up each day except on holiday. A couple of years ago I became reading a few pages a night of a fiction book and really got into having a story on the go and in my head. Right now I’m reading 3 novels - 2 slow reads with Simon and another book is already started. The latter is now also taking me longer to read at a chapter a night but it’s fruitful. I’m living in these different worlds with all these characters. All the urgency is removed from my reading for pleasure
Agreed. In the very recent past it was a measure of how many books I could read in a year- if I took a month to read a book it meant I wasn’t focused or determined enough. Like hustle culture but for books. As I’ve started to really enjoy dipping in and out of W&P I’ve given up my book count goals for this year. I’d rather focus on a tailored list I am excited about , and at a luxurious pace, rather than pushing through.
Thank you for this wonderful summary, Simon! The daily chats are great, but it is so helpful to have it all in one place at the end of the week. I am perhaps interested in the book you mentioned by Andrew D. Kaufman. Would I have to be careful of spoilers if I read it?
You so have to be a bit careful. It's very good though. The chapters are more or less sequential with the story, I made notes on them on Instagram. I might try and integrate them into these weekly updates. I'm glad these are useful by the way!
What a nice way to spend a Sunday evening listening to your account Simonof the chapters from this week. I am enjoying this book so much more than I expected to and I feel it because of the pace I am reading it at and the shared experience.
I would not know any different and appreciate even an attempt at the pronunciation as when reading myself I tend to skim over words I can not pronounce and possibly look up later so as not to disturb the flow of reading.
Simón. Thank you for the weekly updates. Without them I would not have embarked in reading the book, which was lying in my bookcase since 2020. I bought it because it was on sale and I thought that during lockdown I would have had leisure time to read it. How wrong I was in my expectations on what that period would be like! In this I sympathize with this week characters.
These notes from you makes me go back to re-read lines that went unnoticed, to further analyze things that at the first time were not underlined.
I think most (male) characters are lost and are looking for a meaning everywhere. In war, in living rooms, in court, in brothels, saying speeches that nobody really care to listen. Who has been the listening one so far? Perhaps Pierre....I think Andrei is his friend because he listens to him
They have to pretend they are in complete charge. They have to show conviction. But they are shaking. Only Boris' mother, Natasha and Marya seemed quite convinced about what they want, who they are and what to expect from life.
Andrei has been my fav since the first line. I feel for Nikolai too. Being an eldest sister I can see so many traits from my youngest brother in him.
I wish there were more chapters with Napoleon in it. It was an OMG reading moment.
A lovely message, thank you! We will see more of Napoleon later, even if he doesn't have a big onscreen part. For me, the friendship between Pierre and Andrei is the heart and soul of this book.
Oh well, now I'm kinda upset that we're about to return to Moscow, but thank you for the heads up!
As to Bilibin, I find him fascinating, and my personal theory is that he made the trip from being superficial (through inexperience of youth) to being deep and serious (or idealistic, if you will; through experience) and then back to superficiality. Not exactly cynical, but as if accepting that finding meaning is such hard a task, that maybe he's not up for it? He's still apparently good at his job, so it's not like he's idle, it's that he didn't find a mission for himself and that he wasn't eventually persuaded by others handing it down to him (with those attempts happening during the serious phase). And so he's just content with what he has. Enlightened superficiality if you will. And his question to Andrei I feel is coming exactly from his own experience. He was there. He knows there's nothing. And he'd rather Andrei doesn't waste his talents, time, and, of course, life.
Thank you for really helpful summaries, character notes, historical background and tangents that enhance the reading. Do we find out more about the wandering naked princess?
This is so helpful for understanding the character of Andrei, Simon, and a very thorough summary and commentary on these chapters. Thank you very much for putting it together.
Is anyone with me on viewing Prince Andrei as a power hungry narcissist with zero talent? He reminds me so much of a recent UK prime minister for whom life was about emulating his hero (Johnson - Churchill; Bolkonsky - Napoleon). Thoughts and interests revolve around how he is being seen; an action one day (ha! a marriage for example...) regretted more or less the next. He tours the battlefield (read covid hospital) pretending to understand what would best be done with no clue as to how it should be implemented but feeling he would be a very good chap to be doing it. Surely nothing can go wrong?
I don't really see any evidence that he has zero talent, only that he is very inexperienced. He's ambitious and proud, but also unhappy and insecure. In him, we can recognise our own strengths and weaknesses, and those of others who we have known and loved. His flaws are not pathological, just human. I think Tolstoy invites us to understand Andrei, like all the other characters, and see him not as someone fixed who we might dismiss, but as someone who is whole and ever-changing. With famous people like politicians, we generally don't get this complex picture (we don't know the whole of Boris!) and so it can be very difficult to form this compassionate picture of them. I think this is one of the great strengths of literature: to give us that complete picture.
Thank goodness I don’t have to like them to read about them lol. There have been plenty of other beautiful moments though. I think I must be a person who will enjoy the side characters more than the central in this book.
Yes, but if few of the characters resonate then one is less likely to continue the journey with them.
I won't skip the battle scenes but I'm not enjoying this stretch nearly as much as the opening chapters. There are a couple of passages of wonderful description - in Part 2 chapter 23 for example- but I cannot get into the way in which we are meant to be in Andrei's head or Rostov's head at the same time being given sweeping all/seeing surveys of what is happening. I'm struggling with the use of "our" artillery/ infantry/generals with no permanent narrator voice. Is this a translation issue at all?
Sorry you're not enjoying the battle chapters quite so much, Linda! Tolstoy uses an omniscient narrator, so we see (almost) everyone's thoughts as well as the sweeping narrative of the scene. "Our" isn't a translation issue. Tolstoy is writing to a Russian readership about their history, so in that context it makes sense to refer them as our infantry, generals etc. I hope you get more out of it as we go on and just ask if you have any questions.
I am very pleased to find the seductive Princess Bagration in this week‘s round-up! Her existence throws a new light at Andrei‘s relief at not being made a laughing-stock on account of any infidelities on Lise‘s part. Surely the St Petersburg tongues were all a-wag at Princess Bagration‘s exploits.
This week‘s reading has really brought home the brilliance of the slow read for this particular book. As a voracious and usually very fast reader, I would have felt myself hampered and bogged down in my pursuit of plot and excitement and would probably not have paid much attention to the cooking of kasha, dispensing of vodka and wisdom and drying of boots and foot-wrappers. Being made to stick with the characters while they‘re waiting is an experience that can only be had by reading so slowly (and in my case, repeatedly). And that‘s why I agree that War & Peace is more like actual life than like a novel or a history. Thanks again, Simon, for making this possible.
Yes, that tangent was new to me this year, and sheds some light on Andrei as well as Bagration. And yes, this is the sort of week when a slow read really excels. There's so much to notice in the spaces between the plot.
Oh, yes! All my life I have prided myself on reading quickly. However, that has its downsides because I know I would have careened through these chapters without really understanding them at all. I, too, have found myself re-reading a lot. I had to ask Simon in the chat to remind me why Bagration and his unit were there! So this reading, questioning, and re-reading has forced an understanding on me that is making this experience much deeper.
Yes we do seem to feel we have to read books quickly in our society. In the past I’ve been a very slow, inconsistent reads so never got sufficiently into a book to want to pick it up each day except on holiday. A couple of years ago I became reading a few pages a night of a fiction book and really got into having a story on the go and in my head. Right now I’m reading 3 novels - 2 slow reads with Simon and another book is already started. The latter is now also taking me longer to read at a chapter a night but it’s fruitful. I’m living in these different worlds with all these characters. All the urgency is removed from my reading for pleasure
❤️
Agreed. In the very recent past it was a measure of how many books I could read in a year- if I took a month to read a book it meant I wasn’t focused or determined enough. Like hustle culture but for books. As I’ve started to really enjoy dipping in and out of W&P I’ve given up my book count goals for this year. I’d rather focus on a tailored list I am excited about , and at a luxurious pace, rather than pushing through.
Thank you for this wonderful summary, Simon! The daily chats are great, but it is so helpful to have it all in one place at the end of the week. I am perhaps interested in the book you mentioned by Andrew D. Kaufman. Would I have to be careful of spoilers if I read it?
You so have to be a bit careful. It's very good though. The chapters are more or less sequential with the story, I made notes on them on Instagram. I might try and integrate them into these weekly updates. I'm glad these are useful by the way!
Ok, thanks, I'll consider myself forewarned!
Okay… now I’m wildly fascinated by the “wandering princess.” Off to find some rabbit holes in which to uncover more!
I was just thinking this too!
I know! That one I picked up in the group chat. This is the first I am hearing about it.
Same! Since they were bringing up Napoleon comparisons, I couldn’t help but think of Josephine’s debts and infidelities.
I would describe War and Peace as a novel on the human experience from different perspectives.
We see so many different views due to the wide variety of characters in the main families and the soldiers on the battlefield.
Yes, I like to call it an encyclopaedia of human experience, as it all seems to be here in one form or another.
What a nice way to spend a Sunday evening listening to your account Simonof the chapters from this week. I am enjoying this book so much more than I expected to and I feel it because of the pace I am reading it at and the shared experience.
So lovely to hear. I'm still pretty sure I am saying Bagration wrong. But I find all the Russian names difficult!
I would not know any different and appreciate even an attempt at the pronunciation as when reading myself I tend to skim over words I can not pronounce and possibly look up later so as not to disturb the flow of reading.
Simón. Thank you for the weekly updates. Without them I would not have embarked in reading the book, which was lying in my bookcase since 2020. I bought it because it was on sale and I thought that during lockdown I would have had leisure time to read it. How wrong I was in my expectations on what that period would be like! In this I sympathize with this week characters.
These notes from you makes me go back to re-read lines that went unnoticed, to further analyze things that at the first time were not underlined.
I think most (male) characters are lost and are looking for a meaning everywhere. In war, in living rooms, in court, in brothels, saying speeches that nobody really care to listen. Who has been the listening one so far? Perhaps Pierre....I think Andrei is his friend because he listens to him
They have to pretend they are in complete charge. They have to show conviction. But they are shaking. Only Boris' mother, Natasha and Marya seemed quite convinced about what they want, who they are and what to expect from life.
Andrei has been my fav since the first line. I feel for Nikolai too. Being an eldest sister I can see so many traits from my youngest brother in him.
I wish there were more chapters with Napoleon in it. It was an OMG reading moment.
A lovely message, thank you! We will see more of Napoleon later, even if he doesn't have a big onscreen part. For me, the friendship between Pierre and Andrei is the heart and soul of this book.
Oh well, now I'm kinda upset that we're about to return to Moscow, but thank you for the heads up!
As to Bilibin, I find him fascinating, and my personal theory is that he made the trip from being superficial (through inexperience of youth) to being deep and serious (or idealistic, if you will; through experience) and then back to superficiality. Not exactly cynical, but as if accepting that finding meaning is such hard a task, that maybe he's not up for it? He's still apparently good at his job, so it's not like he's idle, it's that he didn't find a mission for himself and that he wasn't eventually persuaded by others handing it down to him (with those attempts happening during the serious phase). And so he's just content with what he has. Enlightened superficiality if you will. And his question to Andrei I feel is coming exactly from his own experience. He was there. He knows there's nothing. And he'd rather Andrei doesn't waste his talents, time, and, of course, life.
Bilibun is a close tie with Anna B for my fave character so far. Though Tushin isn’t far behind.
Well I’m behind but making progress. These summaries are so helpful 💫
Great! No rush as long as you're enjoying the journey.
Thank you for really helpful summaries, character notes, historical background and tangents that enhance the reading. Do we find out more about the wandering naked princess?
Haha, sadly not! She sounds like she deserves a novel all to herself!
This is so helpful for understanding the character of Andrei, Simon, and a very thorough summary and commentary on these chapters. Thank you very much for putting it together.
Is anyone with me on viewing Prince Andrei as a power hungry narcissist with zero talent? He reminds me so much of a recent UK prime minister for whom life was about emulating his hero (Johnson - Churchill; Bolkonsky - Napoleon). Thoughts and interests revolve around how he is being seen; an action one day (ha! a marriage for example...) regretted more or less the next. He tours the battlefield (read covid hospital) pretending to understand what would best be done with no clue as to how it should be implemented but feeling he would be a very good chap to be doing it. Surely nothing can go wrong?
I don't really see any evidence that he has zero talent, only that he is very inexperienced. He's ambitious and proud, but also unhappy and insecure. In him, we can recognise our own strengths and weaknesses, and those of others who we have known and loved. His flaws are not pathological, just human. I think Tolstoy invites us to understand Andrei, like all the other characters, and see him not as someone fixed who we might dismiss, but as someone who is whole and ever-changing. With famous people like politicians, we generally don't get this complex picture (we don't know the whole of Boris!) and so it can be very difficult to form this compassionate picture of them. I think this is one of the great strengths of literature: to give us that complete picture.
Andrei is not a character I enjoy yet. There are many I do though so I hope he matures as time goes on or I find other characters to keep me company.
As I often say, the characters don't exist for our enjoyment, or mature for our satisfaction. But there are definitely plenty to keep you company!
Thank goodness I don’t have to like them to read about them lol. There have been plenty of other beautiful moments though. I think I must be a person who will enjoy the side characters more than the central in this book.
Yes, but if few of the characters resonate then one is less likely to continue the journey with them.
I won't skip the battle scenes but I'm not enjoying this stretch nearly as much as the opening chapters. There are a couple of passages of wonderful description - in Part 2 chapter 23 for example- but I cannot get into the way in which we are meant to be in Andrei's head or Rostov's head at the same time being given sweeping all/seeing surveys of what is happening. I'm struggling with the use of "our" artillery/ infantry/generals with no permanent narrator voice. Is this a translation issue at all?
Sorry you're not enjoying the battle chapters quite so much, Linda! Tolstoy uses an omniscient narrator, so we see (almost) everyone's thoughts as well as the sweeping narrative of the scene. "Our" isn't a translation issue. Tolstoy is writing to a Russian readership about their history, so in that context it makes sense to refer them as our infantry, generals etc. I hope you get more out of it as we go on and just ask if you have any questions.
*chapter 13*
"He looked with disdain at the endless confused mass of detachments..."
I enjoyed the tidbit about Princess Catherine and Bagration!
In answer to your question Simon, on how would I describe W&P so far?
For me, it is cinéma vérité manifested as a book.
Like it!