I think my favourite passage this time (this week’s grim smile) was Lucille’s comment when Louise Théroigne wondered how Camille gets away with stuff (and don’t we all wonder?): “It’s a mystery. I suppose—you know how in families there’s usually one child who gets away with more than the others? Well, perhaps it’s like that in revolutions as well.” I think we all know what she means.
Yes! Camille "getting away with stuff" feels like the little inch of safety where we all stand in this book. He and we feel always seconds away from disaster. One of my favourite lines from Camille this week: "Max, you're almost in a worse state than I am. If I am disseminating panic, you are communicating disaster." Oh, Camille.
Please tell me I'm not the only one who -- when it came to the part about the men from Marseille and their new anthem -- did not immediately think of that wonderful scene in Casablanca, where the crowd at Rick's Cafe start singing it and drown out the Nazis singing their own patriotic song.
Can I also recommend a similar scene in Jean Renoir’s La Grande Illusion, set in a WW1 prisoner of war camp, which presumably influenced the Casablanca scene?
Jean Renoir also made a movie about the early years of the revolution, centered on that very band of volunteers who marched from Marseille to Paris in 1792. It is called, naturally, "La Marseillaise", and both that song and "Ca Ira" are prominently featured.
And then there was the crowd of football fans who, while being evacuated from the stadium on the night of the Bataclan attacks, calmly walked through the tunnel singing the Marseillaise. I found it very odd and moving that this bloodthirsty song could work as such an anthem of unity and resilience.
And fellow W&Pers, let‘s not forget how the Marseillaise thrillingly takes over at the end of Schumann‘s „The Grenadiers“.
At this point, I'm getting strong 'life goes on' vibes - yes, the revolution continues, but real life (in all it's messiness) also continues. Gabrielle has her baby, Camille has woman trouble and Lucile deals with tricky women (and has her baby).
It comes as no surprise to the reader - this reader, anyway - that things are more than a bot chaotic. There are so many factions and factions-within-factions that it's amazing that anybody git anything done.
I'm now wondering whether, had Louis been smarter, he might have played one faction off against another and kept his head. But Louis does seem badly advised.
The cast of thousands is still defeating me at times,but I'm not sure that matters too much. If you're not quite sure who supports whom, that may be a pretty accurate picture of the time.
The guillotine is seen as being humane, but I can't help wondering whether that humanity - and efficiency - contributed to the high number of deaths. Had death been messier and violent, could the crowd have been sickened by it or would it pander to their blood lust?
And I think you're right about the guillotine. Sounds like our man Charles-Henri Sanson probably agrees. It's a bit too easy to remove heads these days. *Checks own head, still on, phew.*
I read something that suggested the execution of the nuns from Compiegne may have been a turning point - and hastened Robespierre's downfall. (I'm not sure that's the consensus, by the way.)
Maybe it does take something as significant as that - and even a ‘clinical’ execution can't hide the horror of that.
While we won't survive long enough to see their execution or Robespierre's fall, we do get to see the revulsion and reaction to the executions. In fact, our attempts to stop the killing are a major part of this story. But I've said too much, and we're getting ahead of ourselves.
It’s amazing how Hillary’s writing reads like a little screenplay for each section. I can envision the setting and the characters talking together on stage.
Mantel loved the theatre. And of course, turned the trilogy into plays. I wish someone would make a play of APOGS. Possibly with the help of Lin-Manuel Miranda.
I was getting strong Hamilton vibes when Dumouriez agreed that peace would be a disaster because war would benefit his career: "Wonderful opportunity for all sorts of things."
My sense is that Louis wasn't just badly advised: he was not cut out for the job; indecisive, wanted to do the right thing, but not always sure what to do. Unlike Charles I, he did seem open to the idea of a constitutional monarchy. But you're right, he needed to be smarter, more decisive. There was an opportunity in 1790. But, hey, it's 1792 now, and that door's shut.
I'm getting into this book more and more. Two excellent chapters this week and there are lots of little bits of humour. Camille's cousin will always be called Camille's cousin.
In your footnotes you ask about the chapter title and what the three blades are but the title comes from the estimate of the cost of creating the Guillotine machine. In the list we are told To three blades (two in reserve) 600 lives. The three blades are all for killing. Two in reserve in case the first one breaks during testing or while dealing out death. Horrifyingly reserves are needed in case the blade becomes blunt and fails to do its job.
Across these two chapters the motif and potential analogy of childbirth loomed large for me, both with Gabrielle and Lucille's experiences and the descriptions afforded to them. Its inevitability (Louise's bluntness on this!) and danger (Annette's fear for Lucille) and intensity (Lucille's "purity of love" that leaves her nearly speechless) and fragility (Camille holding his son, "the fragile scrap of being"). Yes, a reminder that life continues and these revolutionary leaders were married to the normalcies of life; but also, I think, a reminder of just how human the desire for and pursuit of revolution is.
The other thing that stood out to me was the notion from Vergniaud that he was his "own man" and Danton's scoffing condescension in response: "But you will find it does not work out like that." The wondering I have: how self-aware is Danton as he says this?
(Oh, and "knitted God" was a mic-drop moment in this reading, too. Marvelous!)
I liked the echo too, a page or so later where Lucile tells Camille that he doesn't need Robespierre & Danton to stay on good terms because he has a mind of his own, and he also replies "Yes, but you will find it doesn't work out like that."
I didn't find myself pulled in as strongly as usual by the Three Blades chapter, perhaps because Mantel has to devote a lot of time to explaining the people & events of the Brissotin Ministry - although I did love the king’s weary attempt to solve the mystery of Robespierre: "You see, if only I knew what the man wanted. Perhaps I could give it him, and that would be an end of it." I also appreciated how both Danton & Robespierre know Camille too well to rise to his provocations: "I mean that you sound like a fifteen-year-old and what you are trying to do is pick a fight, so why don't you go home for a few days and quarrel with your father?" & "I can't argue with you this morning. I have to conserve my strength for important things."
I was much happier when we reached the chorus of women’s voices in The Tactics of a Bull, especially the way that the king’s actions & subsequent suffering is reported by pious, conventional Gabrielle, who tries to believe that her husband and his friend cannot have blood on their hands because their faces seem kind and familiar.
I also loved some of the women's dry observations about our "heroes":
Gabrielle: "They have a way of turning calamities to their own account."
Lucile: "I suppose - you know how in families there's usually one child who gets away with more than the others? Well, perhaps it's like that in revolutions as well."
& Annette: "It's remarkable, really, how many quite ordinary things Camille can't or won't come to terms with."
Ah I've just realised I forgot the flag the obvious echo:
Louis asks Dumouriez where Robespierre comes from. D says Artois. Henry VIII will ask the same question of Cromwell in The Mirror and the Light. Putney. But yes, in a deeper sense... Where do you come from?
Came across this interview with a French MP, and author of histories of the Revolution/ biographies of revolutionary figures (the books are in French). It's an interesting perspective on both Danton and Robespierre.
I think my favourite passage this time (this week’s grim smile) was Lucille’s comment when Louise Théroigne wondered how Camille gets away with stuff (and don’t we all wonder?): “It’s a mystery. I suppose—you know how in families there’s usually one child who gets away with more than the others? Well, perhaps it’s like that in revolutions as well.” I think we all know what she means.
Yes! Camille "getting away with stuff" feels like the little inch of safety where we all stand in this book. He and we feel always seconds away from disaster. One of my favourite lines from Camille this week: "Max, you're almost in a worse state than I am. If I am disseminating panic, you are communicating disaster." Oh, Camille.
Please tell me I'm not the only one who -- when it came to the part about the men from Marseille and their new anthem -- did not immediately think of that wonderful scene in Casablanca, where the crowd at Rick's Cafe start singing it and drown out the Nazis singing their own patriotic song.
Oh brilliant. If there is a clip on YouTube I'll insert that one into the post for the shere joy of it.
Can I also recommend a similar scene in Jean Renoir’s La Grande Illusion, set in a WW1 prisoner of war camp, which presumably influenced the Casablanca scene?
Of course!
I found a link that works I hope: https://youtu.be/t73D2FAFjr8?si=kpN0SA2eCxALQoyg They’ve been putting on a cabaret - hence the British officer in a dress and wig!
Jean Renoir also made a movie about the early years of the revolution, centered on that very band of volunteers who marched from Marseille to Paris in 1792. It is called, naturally, "La Marseillaise", and both that song and "Ca Ira" are prominently featured.
And then there was the crowd of football fans who, while being evacuated from the stadium on the night of the Bataclan attacks, calmly walked through the tunnel singing the Marseillaise. I found it very odd and moving that this bloodthirsty song could work as such an anthem of unity and resilience.
And fellow W&Pers, let‘s not forget how the Marseillaise thrillingly takes over at the end of Schumann‘s „The Grenadiers“.
At this point, I'm getting strong 'life goes on' vibes - yes, the revolution continues, but real life (in all it's messiness) also continues. Gabrielle has her baby, Camille has woman trouble and Lucile deals with tricky women (and has her baby).
It comes as no surprise to the reader - this reader, anyway - that things are more than a bot chaotic. There are so many factions and factions-within-factions that it's amazing that anybody git anything done.
I'm now wondering whether, had Louis been smarter, he might have played one faction off against another and kept his head. But Louis does seem badly advised.
The cast of thousands is still defeating me at times,but I'm not sure that matters too much. If you're not quite sure who supports whom, that may be a pretty accurate picture of the time.
The guillotine is seen as being humane, but I can't help wondering whether that humanity - and efficiency - contributed to the high number of deaths. Had death been messier and violent, could the crowd have been sickened by it or would it pander to their blood lust?
And I think you're right about the guillotine. Sounds like our man Charles-Henri Sanson probably agrees. It's a bit too easy to remove heads these days. *Checks own head, still on, phew.*
I read something that suggested the execution of the nuns from Compiegne may have been a turning point - and hastened Robespierre's downfall. (I'm not sure that's the consensus, by the way.)
Maybe it does take something as significant as that - and even a ‘clinical’ execution can't hide the horror of that.
Or maybe it's just a footnote.
While we won't survive long enough to see their execution or Robespierre's fall, we do get to see the revulsion and reaction to the executions. In fact, our attempts to stop the killing are a major part of this story. But I've said too much, and we're getting ahead of ourselves.
We don't get to see Robespierre's downfall!!! No!!!!!!
We won't be alive to see it. Sucks to be us. Sorry! The narrative takes us up to April 1794.
It’s amazing how Hillary’s writing reads like a little screenplay for each section. I can envision the setting and the characters talking together on stage.
Mantel loved the theatre. And of course, turned the trilogy into plays. I wish someone would make a play of APOGS. Possibly with the help of Lin-Manuel Miranda.
Well, he has already covered Lafayette - so, why not?
I was getting strong Hamilton vibes when Dumouriez agreed that peace would be a disaster because war would benefit his career: "Wonderful opportunity for all sorts of things."
My sense is that Louis wasn't just badly advised: he was not cut out for the job; indecisive, wanted to do the right thing, but not always sure what to do. Unlike Charles I, he did seem open to the idea of a constitutional monarchy. But you're right, he needed to be smarter, more decisive. There was an opportunity in 1790. But, hey, it's 1792 now, and that door's shut.
Happy Bastille Day to those who celebrate! 🙄
Haha over here in APOGS land we celebrate 10 August. More fools us.
I'm getting into this book more and more. Two excellent chapters this week and there are lots of little bits of humour. Camille's cousin will always be called Camille's cousin.
In your footnotes you ask about the chapter title and what the three blades are but the title comes from the estimate of the cost of creating the Guillotine machine. In the list we are told To three blades (two in reserve) 600 lives. The three blades are all for killing. Two in reserve in case the first one breaks during testing or while dealing out death. Horrifyingly reserves are needed in case the blade becomes blunt and fails to do its job.
It's a sobering thought.
Ah well spotted!
Across these two chapters the motif and potential analogy of childbirth loomed large for me, both with Gabrielle and Lucille's experiences and the descriptions afforded to them. Its inevitability (Louise's bluntness on this!) and danger (Annette's fear for Lucille) and intensity (Lucille's "purity of love" that leaves her nearly speechless) and fragility (Camille holding his son, "the fragile scrap of being"). Yes, a reminder that life continues and these revolutionary leaders were married to the normalcies of life; but also, I think, a reminder of just how human the desire for and pursuit of revolution is.
The other thing that stood out to me was the notion from Vergniaud that he was his "own man" and Danton's scoffing condescension in response: "But you will find it does not work out like that." The wondering I have: how self-aware is Danton as he says this?
(Oh, and "knitted God" was a mic-drop moment in this reading, too. Marvelous!)
I liked the echo too, a page or so later where Lucile tells Camille that he doesn't need Robespierre & Danton to stay on good terms because he has a mind of his own, and he also replies "Yes, but you will find it doesn't work out like that."
I didn't find myself pulled in as strongly as usual by the Three Blades chapter, perhaps because Mantel has to devote a lot of time to explaining the people & events of the Brissotin Ministry - although I did love the king’s weary attempt to solve the mystery of Robespierre: "You see, if only I knew what the man wanted. Perhaps I could give it him, and that would be an end of it." I also appreciated how both Danton & Robespierre know Camille too well to rise to his provocations: "I mean that you sound like a fifteen-year-old and what you are trying to do is pick a fight, so why don't you go home for a few days and quarrel with your father?" & "I can't argue with you this morning. I have to conserve my strength for important things."
I was much happier when we reached the chorus of women’s voices in The Tactics of a Bull, especially the way that the king’s actions & subsequent suffering is reported by pious, conventional Gabrielle, who tries to believe that her husband and his friend cannot have blood on their hands because their faces seem kind and familiar.
I also loved some of the women's dry observations about our "heroes":
Gabrielle: "They have a way of turning calamities to their own account."
Lucile: "I suppose - you know how in families there's usually one child who gets away with more than the others? Well, perhaps it's like that in revolutions as well."
& Annette: "It's remarkable, really, how many quite ordinary things Camille can't or won't come to terms with."
Ah I've just realised I forgot the flag the obvious echo:
Louis asks Dumouriez where Robespierre comes from. D says Artois. Henry VIII will ask the same question of Cromwell in The Mirror and the Light. Putney. But yes, in a deeper sense... Where do you come from?
Came across this interview with a French MP, and author of histories of the Revolution/ biographies of revolutionary figures (the books are in French). It's an interesting perspective on both Danton and Robespierre.
https://jacobin.com/2023/07/french-revolution-bastille-day-robespierre-danton-history
(And I want to learn more about Belley...
What struck me this week was Simon’s commentary about the guillotine:
“”Commoners suffered the noose or worse. Between now and July 1794, about 17,000 people will be guillotined.
France abolished the death penalty in 1981. In 1977, Hamida Djandoubi was the last person to be executed by guillotine in France.”
I was astounded by the 17,000 number AND by the fact that as recently as 1977, a man was guillotined in France.
We’re on the precipice here, aren’t we….