The little details like the fact about the purchased bells and that we will meet all six of Henry's wives before the end of the book, are what make this read along extra enjoyable.
Lovely. I keep saying this, but how did she do it? Page after page of wit and wisdom and history and action, just beautifully done. I think my favourite this week is the passing reference to “the misunderstanding in Eden”.
(But Dun Scotus, I think, and no need for penises.)
Ha, I wanted to look more into the theology of Dun Scrotus, but my mind misted over. Another day. And yes, I've just been listening to an audiobook about John Milton, so that 'misunderstanding in Eden' hit home perfectly.
Richard Cromwell’s line, “you can ring them to let us know when you make a joke” made me laugh out loud. And that made me realise that the funny one-liners are now few and far between compared to the (for me) surprising amount of humour in Wolf Hall. As HM did nothing by chance I expect this is a deliberate step as Cromwell careers relentlessly to his doom and things get more serious in every way. This week I also liked the switch in point of view when we look back at Barnes’ first arrival. For a brief time we are not ‘on Cromwell’s shoulder’ and when seen without TC’s rosy specs, Wolsey is quite a different man! As always, great appreciation for your thoughtful reflections Simon. Always a highlight of my week. 👏
I think I've finally caught up! In this chapter I was intrigued by the repeated description of Robert Barnes (who'd previously faked his own death) as "the dead man" and "the corpse", as an echo/inversion of the idea of dead men walking referenced by the title of Bring Up the Bodies.
I also really enjoyed seeing Cromwell flirting with Lady Latimer - a little running joke that he's repeatedly drawn to the same women as the king, perhaps?
I've come away with much to ponder on the topic of portraits this week - I loved the scene near the end where Cromwell meets with Holbein to plan his wall of kings, including the great quote: "If a portrait may serve as an act of concealment, then he has effected one, he and Hans between them." (This reminded me of Mantel's description of Cromwell as "sleek, plump, and densely inaccessible" in her end note to Bring Up the Bodies...)
Yes, love how Barnes is also an inverse of the ghosts that haunt Cromwell. They are actually dead, but Barnes the corpse has cheated death. But he took is a dead man walking, as Cromwell is...
And yes, only one portrait please. If we have two, we can calibrate and read them off each other. Too much room for interpretation. The act of concealment is complete and perfect. (It didn't even need amendments and post-edits like Holbein's portrait of Thomas More. Hans did it in one.)
Simon, another tour de force by you. I hope you don't tire of praise because I won't tire of giving it.
"We [Cromwell and Crammer] are leaving Henry his rituals and he is giving us the scriptures." I think that's a clue to what Cromwell does not believe. The rituals are the same nonsense to Cromwell as the monasteries and the power of the papacy but not nearly as important to dispense with. He's a pragmatist with all things, including religion.
I think I can come to terms with the praise! Thanks David. Yes, I agree: the things he doesn't believe but him at odds with his king. Best not to say them out loud, too often. After all, 'Cranmer is like me. He believes what the king believes.'
I loved this chapter, and I laughed out loud a few times at its cleverness. Gregory also shines in this section - he really isn't stupid is he? And Uncle Norfolk being nice??? He could really have been a better man with a tiny bit of effort.
[Confession: I only just now realised that Katherine Parr is Katherine Parr. Pay attention Nicola.]
My favourite line of this chapter was: 'He breaks off, before the magnitude of what he does not believe.' I mean, how many of us have had moments like that, where we are momentarily stunned by recognition of a personal truth?
Ha, I didn't even notice that until now! Hilarious. And thankfully now corrected. Since it does in fact mean 'The Scot', your computer is more intelligent than mine. Or at least, purer of mind.
'With all respect to our Saviour, you don't want that notion to get around an army camp' is probably going to be one of my favourite lines from Norfolk, haha. For God's sake, where is this supposed to lead if you take everything that is written in the New Testament seriously? Norfolk shivers at the thought. Now I understand why Norfolk himself doesn't want to read the Bible either, there's too much in there that he's not going to like.
P.S. There is no post this week (I put a note out with the information), because there is nothing much happening on the culinary front. Thurston and I scowl at the cobwebbed hearth.
Ha yes, actually reading the Bible was considering quite a dangerous idea in the 1530s. Isn't that what we have priests for! My apologies to you and Thurston. Let's hope next week's table is less meagre!
The little details like the fact about the purchased bells and that we will meet all six of Henry's wives before the end of the book, are what make this read along extra enjoyable.
Lovely. I keep saying this, but how did she do it? Page after page of wit and wisdom and history and action, just beautifully done. I think my favourite this week is the passing reference to “the misunderstanding in Eden”.
(But Dun Scotus, I think, and no need for penises.)
Ha, I wanted to look more into the theology of Dun Scrotus, but my mind misted over. Another day. And yes, I've just been listening to an audiobook about John Milton, so that 'misunderstanding in Eden' hit home perfectly.
I laughed at the 'misunderstanding'. Its such a political turn of phrase. Just what you'd expect from Crumb.
Richard Cromwell’s line, “you can ring them to let us know when you make a joke” made me laugh out loud. And that made me realise that the funny one-liners are now few and far between compared to the (for me) surprising amount of humour in Wolf Hall. As HM did nothing by chance I expect this is a deliberate step as Cromwell careers relentlessly to his doom and things get more serious in every way. This week I also liked the switch in point of view when we look back at Barnes’ first arrival. For a brief time we are not ‘on Cromwell’s shoulder’ and when seen without TC’s rosy specs, Wolsey is quite a different man! As always, great appreciation for your thoughtful reflections Simon. Always a highlight of my week. 👏
Mantel's sense of humour is just brilliant. Life is full of jokes, dark and light, and it is impossible to take seriously a novel with no jokes.
I think I've finally caught up! In this chapter I was intrigued by the repeated description of Robert Barnes (who'd previously faked his own death) as "the dead man" and "the corpse", as an echo/inversion of the idea of dead men walking referenced by the title of Bring Up the Bodies.
I also really enjoyed seeing Cromwell flirting with Lady Latimer - a little running joke that he's repeatedly drawn to the same women as the king, perhaps?
I've come away with much to ponder on the topic of portraits this week - I loved the scene near the end where Cromwell meets with Holbein to plan his wall of kings, including the great quote: "If a portrait may serve as an act of concealment, then he has effected one, he and Hans between them." (This reminded me of Mantel's description of Cromwell as "sleek, plump, and densely inaccessible" in her end note to Bring Up the Bodies...)
Yes, love how Barnes is also an inverse of the ghosts that haunt Cromwell. They are actually dead, but Barnes the corpse has cheated death. But he took is a dead man walking, as Cromwell is...
And yes, only one portrait please. If we have two, we can calibrate and read them off each other. Too much room for interpretation. The act of concealment is complete and perfect. (It didn't even need amendments and post-edits like Holbein's portrait of Thomas More. Hans did it in one.)
Simon, another tour de force by you. I hope you don't tire of praise because I won't tire of giving it.
"We [Cromwell and Crammer] are leaving Henry his rituals and he is giving us the scriptures." I think that's a clue to what Cromwell does not believe. The rituals are the same nonsense to Cromwell as the monasteries and the power of the papacy but not nearly as important to dispense with. He's a pragmatist with all things, including religion.
I think I can come to terms with the praise! Thanks David. Yes, I agree: the things he doesn't believe but him at odds with his king. Best not to say them out loud, too often. After all, 'Cranmer is like me. He believes what the king believes.'
I loved this chapter, and I laughed out loud a few times at its cleverness. Gregory also shines in this section - he really isn't stupid is he? And Uncle Norfolk being nice??? He could really have been a better man with a tiny bit of effort.
[Confession: I only just now realised that Katherine Parr is Katherine Parr. Pay attention Nicola.]
My favourite line of this chapter was: 'He breaks off, before the magnitude of what he does not believe.' I mean, how many of us have had moments like that, where we are momentarily stunned by recognition of a personal truth?
Uncle Norfolk and Effort are unacquainted.
My autocorrect tries to insist that ‘Scotus’ is ‘Scott’s’, but yours apparently prefers ‘Scrotus’. Computers are strange animals.
Ha, I didn't even notice that until now! Hilarious. And thankfully now corrected. Since it does in fact mean 'The Scot', your computer is more intelligent than mine. Or at least, purer of mind.
I thought you’ve done it on purpose! 😂
Purer in mind, defo.
'With all respect to our Saviour, you don't want that notion to get around an army camp' is probably going to be one of my favourite lines from Norfolk, haha. For God's sake, where is this supposed to lead if you take everything that is written in the New Testament seriously? Norfolk shivers at the thought. Now I understand why Norfolk himself doesn't want to read the Bible either, there's too much in there that he's not going to like.
P.S. There is no post this week (I put a note out with the information), because there is nothing much happening on the culinary front. Thurston and I scowl at the cobwebbed hearth.
Ha yes, actually reading the Bible was considering quite a dangerous idea in the 1530s. Isn't that what we have priests for! My apologies to you and Thurston. Let's hope next week's table is less meagre!
Don't worry about us, Thurston and I are playing chess with marzipan figures in the kitchen, although Thurston eats the Queen all the time... 👸
Freudian slip?
Curiously the chapter is bereft of penis jokes. A missed opportunity, Hilary.
One would think she could've worked in a codpiece or two