For people who are interested in the 1857 uprisings/Mutiny/Sepoy Mutiny/ first war…. Etc. I highly recommend William Dalrymple’s The Last Mughal, centered around Bahadur Shah Zafar, the elderly, poetic emperor who found himself the unwilling center of the rebellion. It also concerns the rebellion and its aftermath, when the British destroyed most of Delhi.
Second Nancy’s recommendation of William Dalrymple’s ‘The Last Mughal’ or indeed any of Dalrymple’s books. Another candidate for the supplemental reading list might be George Orwell’s ‘Burmese Days.’ Not as good a novel as Farrell’s, but grapples with some of the same themes surrounding colonialism. Orwell named his protagonist John Flory - maybe Farrell’s George Fleury is a bit of an homage.
I did think about reading The Last Mughal before starting on Siege. (Alas too busy during the holidays.) Met Dalrymple when he was in Singapore in November — it was like hearing the Empire podcast in the flesh! Anyway, looking forward to starting Siege later this week — and diving into the wealth of material Simon’s already dug up!
Can second that! I also recommend Umi Sinha's 'Belonging' for a look at the 1857 rebellion from a fiction perspective. She writes from the POV of British characters suffering in the infamous Bibighar massacre
As a happy, (mostly lurking) 2024 War and Peace participant, I am thrilled to be participating in this new slow read.
Your comment about the British referring to the Lucknow uprising as the "Indian Mutiny," while the Indians referred to the same event as the "First War of Independence" reminds me of the different names for the American Civil War, depending on which side of the conflict one was on. The Northerners called it "The War of Southern Secession;" the Southerners "The War of Northern Aggression. Names DO matter.
I’m hooked… even before I started the book proper as I read of the author’s short life and the introduction.
Immersion into worlds and events far removed from the US in January 2025 is an antidote and diversion. And the pleasure gained in learning something about India/British history.
I found this quite stressful reading, knowing that the siege was going to happen! I found Fleury's social error in assuming Louise had been born in England really interesting - I knew Anglo-Indians were discriminated against, but the hierarchy of English born v not surprised me. My maternal grandfather was actually born in India, although I don't think he lived there very long (and is long dead so I can't ask any questions!)
The other thing I found surprising was "maidan" for square - apparently it's a Persian word originally but it's spread far, such as Midan Tahrir in Cairo and Euromaiden (named after Independence Square where it started) in Ukraine. Apparently it was spread by the Ottomans (Wikipedia has no source for this but enough of the individual words have sources in the Ottoman word that I believe it), which then lead me down a hole reading about how the Ottomans were involved in India which I likewise had no idea about.
Edit: This is wrong in reference to India, as Persian has historically been used by Muslim rulers in India, starting from the 11th century until really quite recently. So likely Ottoman for Egypt and Ukraine, but probably a direct borrowing for India. Thank you Harpreet!
The maiden thing is really interesting – plenty of rabbit holes to fall down!
The Anglo-Indian vs British is also very interesting. It appears that by the 1850s the British were suspicious of acculturation and Anglo-Indians 'going native'. There had once between a cultural exchange, but now any sign of mixing with Indians or spending time with Indians is regarded as a weakness. I noted how the Doctor boasted about 'sowing his seed' in his youth, but 'never' with native women. If he did, he wouldn't admit it.
That change is really well portrayed I think - the casual contempt is very striking! The scene where they're all drinking and eating and partying and the "natives in rags" are just around the edges watching and nobody pays them any mind is very... evocative is the best word I can think of.
I wonder how things would have gone if the British had had more respect for the Indians, or if running and ruling a country that isn't yours always inevitably leads to that kind of atitude in some way
Indian languages have lots of Persian influence because of the history of rulers (Mughals) who originated from there, as well as Persia having influenced north India culturally by osmosis across the centuries
Oooh, so could have spread seperately from the Persians to the Indians and from the Persians to the Ottomans to Egypt and Ukraine? Makes sense, it's interesting! Apparently the Sanskrit word is cognate with it (and apparently Independence Square in Ukraine is the only square to be a Maidan rather than the Slavic word, yes I spent ages reading about this)
It is fascinating! The influence of Persia on north India is so profound that the Punjab region (now divided between India and Pakistan) is a name of Persian origin (Punj means five and Ab means waters / rivers) - this region of north west India has five rivers that make it very fertile. It was know as Pentopatamia in Greek, which also means 'Land of Five Rivers'. Alexander the Great was defeated by the River Beas which he could not traverse. Persia was of course the great civilisation that the Greeks defined themselves against. Its influence has been vast and perennial.
This is great, I had no idea! I've just been looking it up thanks to your comment and it's so interesting that Persian has often been the official language of the region, up until reasonably recently. Thank you for sharing!
Persian words entered Hindustani and other Indian languages through centuries of influence, culminating in the Mughal Empire which was Persian speaking. It wasn't through the Ottomans in India although there were Turkish and Turkic speaking soldiers and others in India, and the Mughals were originally a Turkic people from Central Asia
I think you are supposed to laugh, no? It is an absurd little detail – and interesting that the Collector sees it as a bad sign. I presume it is because the Indian bread is "out of place" as the British are "out of place" in Krishnapur. The message is plain: Go home.
I think its brilliant. It is simultaneously absurdist, comical but at the same time, the kind of detail that a paranoid mind may fixate upon. Something out of place, strange and incomprehensible
The Park Street Cemetery is amazing, a real necropolis. And very quiet, in the middle of noisy Kolkata. It’s poignant to read the ages of the British dead, most of them very young. And then there is the tomb of Rose Aylmer, whose tomb is inscribed with a poem written to her by an admirer:
The Anand/Dalrymple Empire podcast is pure gold! Series 1 about the British East India company is an excellent frame for this book, and highly recommended. Once you get started, you might become as addicted as I have to the podcast.
I am just about to dive in to this book, can't wait to come back when I've done the reading!
I love the ambition of a novel about 'civilisation', the sense of what civilisation is, and the anxiety about change and the ending of a civilisation, and to do it in a witty, but serious way.
The empty plain at the start made me think of Ozymandias, another who saw his realm go from proud grandeur to dust and ruin. It's a re-read for me, and I love the humour again; when I first read it, it took me some time to allow myself to find it funny, given the subject matter.
Interesting that an Indian food was a symbol of rebellion and differences when now the UKs favourite dish is supposedly Chicken Tikka Masala - of course an adaptation of Indian food for the British market. The Empire Strikes ba k?
I went to the Booker Library in the Waterstones in London and when I took the quiz this was the book that came up as a good fit for me. So delighted that it’s one you’ve picked for a slow read!
Very much enjoying this so far. What a brilliant opening... What we think we see, and are utterly wrong about; what we entirely fail to see; and how it's all a matter of conditioning -- all in a scene-setting couple of pages. And I love his tongue-in-cheek style. Unsparing.
We have begun uploading additional resources for the read-along here: https://footnotesandtangents.substack.com/p/the-siege-of-krishnapur-online-resources
I'll try to add other people's recommendations along the way.
I am so looking forward to the unveiling of the mystery of the chapatis.
For people who are interested in the 1857 uprisings/Mutiny/Sepoy Mutiny/ first war…. Etc. I highly recommend William Dalrymple’s The Last Mughal, centered around Bahadur Shah Zafar, the elderly, poetic emperor who found himself the unwilling center of the rebellion. It also concerns the rebellion and its aftermath, when the British destroyed most of Delhi.
Thanks Nancy. I'll be putting together a list of further reading on the website. And I'll be sure to add WD's book.
Second Nancy’s recommendation of William Dalrymple’s ‘The Last Mughal’ or indeed any of Dalrymple’s books. Another candidate for the supplemental reading list might be George Orwell’s ‘Burmese Days.’ Not as good a novel as Farrell’s, but grapples with some of the same themes surrounding colonialism. Orwell named his protagonist John Flory - maybe Farrell’s George Fleury is a bit of an homage.
I did think about reading The Last Mughal before starting on Siege. (Alas too busy during the holidays.) Met Dalrymple when he was in Singapore in November — it was like hearing the Empire podcast in the flesh! Anyway, looking forward to starting Siege later this week — and diving into the wealth of material Simon’s already dug up!
Thanks for reminding me about Burmese Days!
Can second that! I also recommend Umi Sinha's 'Belonging' for a look at the 1857 rebellion from a fiction perspective. She writes from the POV of British characters suffering in the infamous Bibighar massacre
Fantastic. Thanks, Ali!
If you're in or near London, the V&A has a big exhibition of Mughal art and architecture on until May (tickets cost a fortune but anyway)
As a happy, (mostly lurking) 2024 War and Peace participant, I am thrilled to be participating in this new slow read.
Your comment about the British referring to the Lucknow uprising as the "Indian Mutiny," while the Indians referred to the same event as the "First War of Independence" reminds me of the different names for the American Civil War, depending on which side of the conflict one was on. The Northerners called it "The War of Southern Secession;" the Southerners "The War of Northern Aggression. Names DO matter.
I’m hooked… even before I started the book proper as I read of the author’s short life and the introduction.
Immersion into worlds and events far removed from the US in January 2025 is an antidote and diversion. And the pleasure gained in learning something about India/British history.
Hi Barbara! Glad to see you here. I agree 100% with you. This is a very welcome diversion from the news of the day, and I am hooked!
And glad to see you here Craig
I found this quite stressful reading, knowing that the siege was going to happen! I found Fleury's social error in assuming Louise had been born in England really interesting - I knew Anglo-Indians were discriminated against, but the hierarchy of English born v not surprised me. My maternal grandfather was actually born in India, although I don't think he lived there very long (and is long dead so I can't ask any questions!)
The other thing I found surprising was "maidan" for square - apparently it's a Persian word originally but it's spread far, such as Midan Tahrir in Cairo and Euromaiden (named after Independence Square where it started) in Ukraine. Apparently it was spread by the Ottomans (Wikipedia has no source for this but enough of the individual words have sources in the Ottoman word that I believe it), which then lead me down a hole reading about how the Ottomans were involved in India which I likewise had no idea about.
Edit: This is wrong in reference to India, as Persian has historically been used by Muslim rulers in India, starting from the 11th century until really quite recently. So likely Ottoman for Egypt and Ukraine, but probably a direct borrowing for India. Thank you Harpreet!
The maiden thing is really interesting – plenty of rabbit holes to fall down!
The Anglo-Indian vs British is also very interesting. It appears that by the 1850s the British were suspicious of acculturation and Anglo-Indians 'going native'. There had once between a cultural exchange, but now any sign of mixing with Indians or spending time with Indians is regarded as a weakness. I noted how the Doctor boasted about 'sowing his seed' in his youth, but 'never' with native women. If he did, he wouldn't admit it.
That change is really well portrayed I think - the casual contempt is very striking! The scene where they're all drinking and eating and partying and the "natives in rags" are just around the edges watching and nobody pays them any mind is very... evocative is the best word I can think of.
I wonder how things would have gone if the British had had more respect for the Indians, or if running and ruling a country that isn't yours always inevitably leads to that kind of atitude in some way
Indian languages have lots of Persian influence because of the history of rulers (Mughals) who originated from there, as well as Persia having influenced north India culturally by osmosis across the centuries
Oooh, so could have spread seperately from the Persians to the Indians and from the Persians to the Ottomans to Egypt and Ukraine? Makes sense, it's interesting! Apparently the Sanskrit word is cognate with it (and apparently Independence Square in Ukraine is the only square to be a Maidan rather than the Slavic word, yes I spent ages reading about this)
It is fascinating! The influence of Persia on north India is so profound that the Punjab region (now divided between India and Pakistan) is a name of Persian origin (Punj means five and Ab means waters / rivers) - this region of north west India has five rivers that make it very fertile. It was know as Pentopatamia in Greek, which also means 'Land of Five Rivers'. Alexander the Great was defeated by the River Beas which he could not traverse. Persia was of course the great civilisation that the Greeks defined themselves against. Its influence has been vast and perennial.
I added an edit to my original comment as well with your information, thank you!
This is great, I had no idea! I've just been looking it up thanks to your comment and it's so interesting that Persian has often been the official language of the region, up until reasonably recently. Thank you for sharing!
Persian words entered Hindustani and other Indian languages through centuries of influence, culminating in the Mughal Empire which was Persian speaking. It wasn't through the Ottomans in India although there were Turkish and Turkic speaking soldiers and others in India, and the Mughals were originally a Turkic people from Central Asia
I have to admit that the chapatis made me laugh although rather guiltily if they truly are evil portents.
I think you are supposed to laugh, no? It is an absurd little detail – and interesting that the Collector sees it as a bad sign. I presume it is because the Indian bread is "out of place" as the British are "out of place" in Krishnapur. The message is plain: Go home.
Or is the message “adapt to Indian ways “ ?
Could be that too.
I think its brilliant. It is simultaneously absurdist, comical but at the same time, the kind of detail that a paranoid mind may fixate upon. Something out of place, strange and incomprehensible
The Park Street Cemetery is amazing, a real necropolis. And very quiet, in the middle of noisy Kolkata. It’s poignant to read the ages of the British dead, most of them very young. And then there is the tomb of Rose Aylmer, whose tomb is inscribed with a poem written to her by an admirer:
https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/44567/rose-aylmer
fascinating, thanks for sharing Nancy
The Anand/Dalrymple Empire podcast is pure gold! Series 1 about the British East India company is an excellent frame for this book, and highly recommended. Once you get started, you might become as addicted as I have to the podcast.
I am just about to dive in to this book, can't wait to come back when I've done the reading!
I love the ambition of a novel about 'civilisation', the sense of what civilisation is, and the anxiety about change and the ending of a civilisation, and to do it in a witty, but serious way.
The empty plain at the start made me think of Ozymandias, another who saw his realm go from proud grandeur to dust and ruin. It's a re-read for me, and I love the humour again; when I first read it, it took me some time to allow myself to find it funny, given the subject matter.
Interesting that an Indian food was a symbol of rebellion and differences when now the UKs favourite dish is supposedly Chicken Tikka Masala - of course an adaptation of Indian food for the British market. The Empire Strikes ba k?
I went to the Booker Library in the Waterstones in London and when I took the quiz this was the book that came up as a good fit for me. So delighted that it’s one you’ve picked for a slow read!
Hey all, Ali joining from the UK here. I thought we were reading this in Feb so haven't started yet! Will return once I've read.
Very much enjoying this so far. What a brilliant opening... What we think we see, and are utterly wrong about; what we entirely fail to see; and how it's all a matter of conditioning -- all in a scene-setting couple of pages. And I love his tongue-in-cheek style. Unsparing.