As a happy, (mostly lurking) 2024 War and Peace participant, I am thrilled to be participating in this new slow read.
Your comment about the British referring to the Lucknow uprising as the "Indian Mutiny," while the Indians referred to the same event as the "First War of Independence" reminds me of the different names for the American Civil War, depending on which side of the conflict one was on. The Northerners called it "The War of Southern Secession;" the Southerners "The War of Northern Aggression. Names DO matter.
Last year I visited Vietnam, where what we in Australia call the Vietnam war, is called the American war. My visit to the War Museum in Saigon was a very chastening experience - seeing that war from the 'enemies' point of view.
I'm not too familiar with this part of history and I'm plunging in blind, so to speak. My green impression of the first two chapters: flowing easy prose, delightful dry humor, upsetting and grotesque undertones. The same kind of vile feeling you get when seeing that 'The East Offering its Riches to Britannia' painting Simon added. Indians are deliberately kept in the margins of the narrative, background extras in their own history. The detail that stuck with me is the sweaty armpits during the ball, the quintessential Victorian activity turned gross and surreal, and the colonizers still insisting on doing it.
I'm really happy I'm getting to study and explore these themes further.
There are so many great details, aren't there? I'm not very familiar with the history here, either - just in large strokes - so I was pleased that I learned several things totally new to me in this weeks post.
Yes! I went and googled “chapati 1857” and there’s quite a lot about it in the Indian media. And no one seems to have a sure idea of what the chapatis were for.
For people who are interested in the 1857 uprisings/Mutiny/Sepoy Mutiny/ first war…. Etc. I highly recommend William Dalrymple’s The Last Mughal, centered around Bahadur Shah Zafar, the elderly, poetic emperor who found himself the unwilling center of the rebellion. It also concerns the rebellion and its aftermath, when the British destroyed most of Delhi.
Second Nancy’s recommendation of William Dalrymple’s ‘The Last Mughal’ or indeed any of Dalrymple’s books. Another candidate for the supplemental reading list might be George Orwell’s ‘Burmese Days.’ Not as good a novel as Farrell’s, but grapples with some of the same themes surrounding colonialism. Orwell named his protagonist John Flory - maybe Farrell’s George Fleury is a bit of an homage.
I did think about reading The Last Mughal before starting on Siege. (Alas too busy during the holidays.) Met Dalrymple when he was in Singapore in November — it was like hearing the Empire podcast in the flesh! Anyway, looking forward to starting Siege later this week — and diving into the wealth of material Simon’s already dug up!
Can second that! I also recommend Umi Sinha's 'Belonging' for a look at the 1857 rebellion from a fiction perspective. She writes from the POV of British characters suffering in the infamous Bibighar massacre
I’m hooked… even before I started the book proper as I read of the author’s short life and the introduction.
Immersion into worlds and events far removed from the US in January 2025 is an antidote and diversion. And the pleasure gained in learning something about India/British history.
The empty plain at the start made me think of Ozymandias, another who saw his realm go from proud grandeur to dust and ruin. It's a re-read for me, and I love the humour again; when I first read it, it took me some time to allow myself to find it funny, given the subject matter.
Lordy lord, Nicola, who's going to give you permission to laugh if not yourself? But Farrell, like Mantel, is notorious for his dark humour, so I think you have the author's permission at least.
Having done W&P 2024 (and re-reading in 2025 along side slow reads of Anna K and The Books of Jacob), I wanted to join this year’s read a long too but this was the book that least appealed to me in outline. 2 chapters in I’m so glad I’ve started it…I didn’t expect it to be so full of wry observation. I stayed up way too late to read chapter 2 once I got started! Of course I should just have trusted a Hilary Mantell + Simon seal of approval 😊
The Anand/Dalrymple Empire podcast is pure gold! Series 1 about the British East India company is an excellent frame for this book, and highly recommended. Once you get started, you might become as addicted as I have to the podcast.
I am just about to dive in to this book, can't wait to come back when I've done the reading!
The current series on the Mughal Empire is also pure gold (and gemstones and pearls and all the riches, of course, being about the incomparable Mughals).
First time reading this and I’m really enjoying the dry humour and witty asides. I could just picture the Collector’s children “sat in a despairing row” at the poetry reading. The line about the will caught my eye. Clearly there as a marker of foreboding but I wondered if there was more significance to it so appreciated the little nugget about the East India Company and their employees being required to have wills in place, Simon - thank you! Looking forward to reading the next instalment!
I am intrigued by the theme of what constitutes civilisation. Funnily enough reading AK with Henry, chp10 today touches on civilisation - love the serendipity - “the aim of civilisation to make everything an enjoyment” (Stepan) … “well if that’s its aim I’d rather be wild” (Levin)
I’m doing Anna Karenina too and you make an interesting parallel. Who decides and by what criteria. I love it when books arc across each other so unexpectedly. This will be an interesting theme to consider while reading The Siege.
Very much enjoying this so far. What a brilliant opening... What we think we see, and are utterly wrong about; what we entirely fail to see; and how it's all a matter of conditioning -- all in a scene-setting couple of pages. And I love his tongue-in-cheek style. Unsparing.
The Park Street Cemetery is amazing, a real necropolis. And very quiet, in the middle of noisy Kolkata. It’s poignant to read the ages of the British dead, most of them very young. And then there is the tomb of Rose Aylmer, whose tomb is inscribed with a poem written to her by an admirer:
I read up on this and people on the internet are suggesting it was more likely cholera, the link with pineapples being a hankering for fresh fruit that might have been contaminated.
I found this quite stressful reading, knowing that the siege was going to happen! I found Fleury's social error in assuming Louise had been born in England really interesting - I knew Anglo-Indians were discriminated against, but the hierarchy of English born v not surprised me. My maternal grandfather was actually born in India, although I don't think he lived there very long (and is long dead so I can't ask any questions!)
The other thing I found surprising was "maidan" for square - apparently it's a Persian word originally but it's spread far, such as Midan Tahrir in Cairo and Euromaiden (named after Independence Square where it started) in Ukraine. Apparently it was spread by the Ottomans (Wikipedia has no source for this but enough of the individual words have sources in the Ottoman word that I believe it), which then lead me down a hole reading about how the Ottomans were involved in India which I likewise had no idea about.
Edit: This is wrong in reference to India, as Persian has historically been used by Muslim rulers in India, starting from the 11th century until really quite recently. So likely Ottoman for Egypt and Ukraine, but probably a direct borrowing for India. Thank you Harpreet!
The maiden thing is really interesting – plenty of rabbit holes to fall down!
The Anglo-Indian vs British is also very interesting. It appears that by the 1850s the British were suspicious of acculturation and Anglo-Indians 'going native'. There had once between a cultural exchange, but now any sign of mixing with Indians or spending time with Indians is regarded as a weakness. I noted how the Doctor boasted about 'sowing his seed' in his youth, but 'never' with native women. If he did, he wouldn't admit it.
That change is really well portrayed I think - the casual contempt is very striking! The scene where they're all drinking and eating and partying and the "natives in rags" are just around the edges watching and nobody pays them any mind is very... evocative is the best word I can think of.
I wonder how things would have gone if the British had had more respect for the Indians, or if running and ruling a country that isn't yours always inevitably leads to that kind of atitude in some way
My great great great grandmother was the result of Anglo Indian cultural exchange. Her parents were an assistant surgeon working for the East India Company and, according to her babtisim record, a "native Indian woman" . She was born in 1819 and grew up in Arcot, Madras before returning to England when her father was posted to South Africa. While impossible to know, she didn't seem to be handicapped by her mixed race origin in her subsequent life.
Indian languages have lots of Persian influence because of the history of rulers (Mughals) who originated from there, as well as Persia having influenced north India culturally by osmosis across the centuries
Oooh, so could have spread seperately from the Persians to the Indians and from the Persians to the Ottomans to Egypt and Ukraine? Makes sense, it's interesting! Apparently the Sanskrit word is cognate with it (and apparently Independence Square in Ukraine is the only square to be a Maidan rather than the Slavic word, yes I spent ages reading about this)
It is fascinating! The influence of Persia on north India is so profound that the Punjab region (now divided between India and Pakistan) is a name of Persian origin (Punj means five and Ab means waters / rivers) - this region of north west India has five rivers that make it very fertile. It was know as Pentopatamia in Greek, which also means 'Land of Five Rivers'. Alexander the Great was defeated by the River Beas which he could not traverse. Persia was of course the great civilisation that the Greeks defined themselves against. Its influence has been vast and perennial.
This is great, I had no idea! I've just been looking it up thanks to your comment and it's so interesting that Persian has often been the official language of the region, up until reasonably recently. Thank you for sharing!
Persian words entered Hindustani and other Indian languages through centuries of influence, culminating in the Mughal Empire which was Persian speaking. It wasn't through the Ottomans in India although there were Turkish and Turkic speaking soldiers and others in India, and the Mughals were originally a Turkic people from Central Asia
We have begun uploading additional resources for the read-along here: https://footnotesandtangents.substack.com/p/the-siege-of-krishnapur-online-resources
I'll try to add other people's recommendations along the way.
Please add 'Belonging' by Umi Sinha!
As a happy, (mostly lurking) 2024 War and Peace participant, I am thrilled to be participating in this new slow read.
Your comment about the British referring to the Lucknow uprising as the "Indian Mutiny," while the Indians referred to the same event as the "First War of Independence" reminds me of the different names for the American Civil War, depending on which side of the conflict one was on. The Northerners called it "The War of Southern Secession;" the Southerners "The War of Northern Aggression. Names DO matter.
Same for the “Vietnam War,” which is, no surprise, the “American War” in Vietnam.
Gee, hard to believe, but I actually didn't notice your comment until after I posted my remark.
Last year I visited Vietnam, where what we in Australia call the Vietnam war, is called the American war. My visit to the War Museum in Saigon was a very chastening experience - seeing that war from the 'enemies' point of view.
I'm not too familiar with this part of history and I'm plunging in blind, so to speak. My green impression of the first two chapters: flowing easy prose, delightful dry humor, upsetting and grotesque undertones. The same kind of vile feeling you get when seeing that 'The East Offering its Riches to Britannia' painting Simon added. Indians are deliberately kept in the margins of the narrative, background extras in their own history. The detail that stuck with me is the sweaty armpits during the ball, the quintessential Victorian activity turned gross and surreal, and the colonizers still insisting on doing it.
I'm really happy I'm getting to study and explore these themes further.
There are so many great details, aren't there? I'm not very familiar with the history here, either - just in large strokes - so I was pleased that I learned several things totally new to me in this weeks post.
I am so looking forward to the unveiling of the mystery of the chapatis.
Yes! I went and googled “chapati 1857” and there’s quite a lot about it in the Indian media. And no one seems to have a sure idea of what the chapatis were for.
For people who are interested in the 1857 uprisings/Mutiny/Sepoy Mutiny/ first war…. Etc. I highly recommend William Dalrymple’s The Last Mughal, centered around Bahadur Shah Zafar, the elderly, poetic emperor who found himself the unwilling center of the rebellion. It also concerns the rebellion and its aftermath, when the British destroyed most of Delhi.
Thanks Nancy. I'll be putting together a list of further reading on the website. And I'll be sure to add WD's book.
Second Nancy’s recommendation of William Dalrymple’s ‘The Last Mughal’ or indeed any of Dalrymple’s books. Another candidate for the supplemental reading list might be George Orwell’s ‘Burmese Days.’ Not as good a novel as Farrell’s, but grapples with some of the same themes surrounding colonialism. Orwell named his protagonist John Flory - maybe Farrell’s George Fleury is a bit of an homage.
Thanks for reminding me about Burmese Days!
I did think about reading The Last Mughal before starting on Siege. (Alas too busy during the holidays.) Met Dalrymple when he was in Singapore in November — it was like hearing the Empire podcast in the flesh! Anyway, looking forward to starting Siege later this week — and diving into the wealth of material Simon’s already dug up!
Can second that! I also recommend Umi Sinha's 'Belonging' for a look at the 1857 rebellion from a fiction perspective. She writes from the POV of British characters suffering in the infamous Bibighar massacre
Fantastic. Thanks, Ali!
If you're in or near London, the V&A has a big exhibition of Mughal art and architecture on until May (tickets cost a fortune but anyway)
I’m hooked… even before I started the book proper as I read of the author’s short life and the introduction.
Immersion into worlds and events far removed from the US in January 2025 is an antidote and diversion. And the pleasure gained in learning something about India/British history.
But there are always parallels that give pause for thought about the present.
The empty plain at the start made me think of Ozymandias, another who saw his realm go from proud grandeur to dust and ruin. It's a re-read for me, and I love the humour again; when I first read it, it took me some time to allow myself to find it funny, given the subject matter.
I'm having a similar experience - am I allowed to laugh? I suppose its faintly sardonic...
Lordy lord, Nicola, who's going to give you permission to laugh if not yourself? But Farrell, like Mantel, is notorious for his dark humour, so I think you have the author's permission at least.
Hi Barbara! Glad to see you here. I agree 100% with you. This is a very welcome diversion from the news of the day, and I am hooked!
And glad to see you here Craig
"Why can't all women be widows?" What an odd and funny thing the Collector thinks. And, you know, maybe be careful what you wish for?
Quite!
Yeah. I had the same thought. No will and now wishing for widows. Not smart, Collector.
Having done W&P 2024 (and re-reading in 2025 along side slow reads of Anna K and The Books of Jacob), I wanted to join this year’s read a long too but this was the book that least appealed to me in outline. 2 chapters in I’m so glad I’ve started it…I didn’t expect it to be so full of wry observation. I stayed up way too late to read chapter 2 once I got started! Of course I should just have trusted a Hilary Mantell + Simon seal of approval 😊
Trust in Mantel. Then hope that Simon gets it right!
I have every confidence 🙌
The Anand/Dalrymple Empire podcast is pure gold! Series 1 about the British East India company is an excellent frame for this book, and highly recommended. Once you get started, you might become as addicted as I have to the podcast.
I am just about to dive in to this book, can't wait to come back when I've done the reading!
The current series on the Mughal Empire is also pure gold (and gemstones and pearls and all the riches, of course, being about the incomparable Mughals).
First time reading this and I’m really enjoying the dry humour and witty asides. I could just picture the Collector’s children “sat in a despairing row” at the poetry reading. The line about the will caught my eye. Clearly there as a marker of foreboding but I wondered if there was more significance to it so appreciated the little nugget about the East India Company and their employees being required to have wills in place, Simon - thank you! Looking forward to reading the next instalment!
I am intrigued by the theme of what constitutes civilisation. Funnily enough reading AK with Henry, chp10 today touches on civilisation - love the serendipity - “the aim of civilisation to make everything an enjoyment” (Stepan) … “well if that’s its aim I’d rather be wild” (Levin)
I’m doing Anna Karenina too and you make an interesting parallel. Who decides and by what criteria. I love it when books arc across each other so unexpectedly. This will be an interesting theme to consider while reading The Siege.
Yes, I am reading AK as well with Henry.
Agreed
I need to get rolling on AK with Henry :) I was on the fence, then read the opening and was immediately pulled in. See you over there.
Yes! See you soon
Very much enjoying this so far. What a brilliant opening... What we think we see, and are utterly wrong about; what we entirely fail to see; and how it's all a matter of conditioning -- all in a scene-setting couple of pages. And I love his tongue-in-cheek style. Unsparing.
The Park Street Cemetery is amazing, a real necropolis. And very quiet, in the middle of noisy Kolkata. It’s poignant to read the ages of the British dead, most of them very young. And then there is the tomb of Rose Aylmer, whose tomb is inscribed with a poem written to her by an admirer:
https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/44567/rose-aylmer
Who, we‘re told by Amit in A Suitable Boy, unforgettably died of a surfeit of pineapples. 🍍
Pineapples! W&P crossover!
🍍🍍🍍!!!
I read up on this and people on the internet are suggesting it was more likely cholera, the link with pineapples being a hankering for fresh fruit that might have been contaminated.
Ah, yes, was that Rose? I’d forgotten.
fascinating, thanks for sharing Nancy
I found this quite stressful reading, knowing that the siege was going to happen! I found Fleury's social error in assuming Louise had been born in England really interesting - I knew Anglo-Indians were discriminated against, but the hierarchy of English born v not surprised me. My maternal grandfather was actually born in India, although I don't think he lived there very long (and is long dead so I can't ask any questions!)
The other thing I found surprising was "maidan" for square - apparently it's a Persian word originally but it's spread far, such as Midan Tahrir in Cairo and Euromaiden (named after Independence Square where it started) in Ukraine. Apparently it was spread by the Ottomans (Wikipedia has no source for this but enough of the individual words have sources in the Ottoman word that I believe it), which then lead me down a hole reading about how the Ottomans were involved in India which I likewise had no idea about.
Edit: This is wrong in reference to India, as Persian has historically been used by Muslim rulers in India, starting from the 11th century until really quite recently. So likely Ottoman for Egypt and Ukraine, but probably a direct borrowing for India. Thank you Harpreet!
The maiden thing is really interesting – plenty of rabbit holes to fall down!
The Anglo-Indian vs British is also very interesting. It appears that by the 1850s the British were suspicious of acculturation and Anglo-Indians 'going native'. There had once between a cultural exchange, but now any sign of mixing with Indians or spending time with Indians is regarded as a weakness. I noted how the Doctor boasted about 'sowing his seed' in his youth, but 'never' with native women. If he did, he wouldn't admit it.
That change is really well portrayed I think - the casual contempt is very striking! The scene where they're all drinking and eating and partying and the "natives in rags" are just around the edges watching and nobody pays them any mind is very... evocative is the best word I can think of.
I wonder how things would have gone if the British had had more respect for the Indians, or if running and ruling a country that isn't yours always inevitably leads to that kind of atitude in some way
My great great great grandmother was the result of Anglo Indian cultural exchange. Her parents were an assistant surgeon working for the East India Company and, according to her babtisim record, a "native Indian woman" . She was born in 1819 and grew up in Arcot, Madras before returning to England when her father was posted to South Africa. While impossible to know, she didn't seem to be handicapped by her mixed race origin in her subsequent life.
Indian languages have lots of Persian influence because of the history of rulers (Mughals) who originated from there, as well as Persia having influenced north India culturally by osmosis across the centuries
Oooh, so could have spread seperately from the Persians to the Indians and from the Persians to the Ottomans to Egypt and Ukraine? Makes sense, it's interesting! Apparently the Sanskrit word is cognate with it (and apparently Independence Square in Ukraine is the only square to be a Maidan rather than the Slavic word, yes I spent ages reading about this)
It is fascinating! The influence of Persia on north India is so profound that the Punjab region (now divided between India and Pakistan) is a name of Persian origin (Punj means five and Ab means waters / rivers) - this region of north west India has five rivers that make it very fertile. It was know as Pentopatamia in Greek, which also means 'Land of Five Rivers'. Alexander the Great was defeated by the River Beas which he could not traverse. Persia was of course the great civilisation that the Greeks defined themselves against. Its influence has been vast and perennial.
I added an edit to my original comment as well with your information, thank you!
This is great, I had no idea! I've just been looking it up thanks to your comment and it's so interesting that Persian has often been the official language of the region, up until reasonably recently. Thank you for sharing!
Persian words entered Hindustani and other Indian languages through centuries of influence, culminating in the Mughal Empire which was Persian speaking. It wasn't through the Ottomans in India although there were Turkish and Turkic speaking soldiers and others in India, and the Mughals were originally a Turkic people from Central Asia