Bhairava: (I’m not South Asian, but was married to one, and lived with him in Chennai, formerly called Madras, for many years). Bhairava’s name means terrifying, he looks terrifying, eager for blood. He has a baffling number of arms. His cup is made from a skull. There are jackals, carrion eaters near his shrine. He is often a gatekeeper, stationed at the entrance to temples to keep out evil-doers. I would have thought that he belonged at the place where Fleury goes to meet the Maharaja, and that he would symbolize Fleury’s transition from his idea of order into the disturbingly alien native world. (See the cave in Passsage to India?) Instead, Bhairava is placed at the entrance to a scene of the worst of the Raj - stupid, ugly, violent people who despise and demean Indians. He appears to represent them, instead of repelling them. Bhairava also has an association with Kali Yuga, the last and most degraded age of the universe, before it is destroyed and begins again. Could that be it? I’m interested in what others have to say.
I have been trying to come up with the perfect distraction from today, and you have provided it. Time to dive deeper into all of your links and images.
So much reminded me of W&P in these chapters, from Fleury’s bumbling attempts to contribute ideas to the conversation, to the boisterous and reckless young officer riding a horse into the bungalow and making it drink horrid champagne (the poor bear came to mind), to the ruined dwellings, a bit like Bald Hills after the soldiers had come through - and these Victorians feeling so very nearly secure in their perceived superiority over their underlings. All the way to the rather brilliantly expressed musings on women’s place in a conversation - almost an echo of disgruntled late Leo, but with much more ironic distance and used as a way of skewering the men’s preconceptions.
I love the heated and lofty theme of “civilization” being juxtaposed with the horrifying behavior of the opium seller and friends. Acting like frat boys while renaming their servants as animals. I kept wishing for a scene where we could see what they are thinking about these awful people.
There is so much humor in this book, some subtle, some knee-slapping. It must have been fun to write this book. I like, for instance, that Fleury bought his dog Chloë because its golden tresses reminded him of Louise. 😂
Fleury’s ophidiophobia reminds me of that scene early in Raiders of the Lost Ark when Indian Jones finds snakes in the plane he is trying to escape in. At our house, we have a strict rule about snakes, which also applies to spiders. Kill first. Identify second. Not very Buddhist of me, but I sleep just fine, thank you. 🥸
How much does someone need to hate and/or to fear snakes for it to qualify or classify as “ophidiophobia”? Where’s the line for that?
Is it only when one reaches Indiana Jones’s level of “snake hatred”??
I mean, if I were supposed to get on a plane filled with snakes, or about to jump into a pit filled with them, I would definitely decline any invitations to do either one! That only seems like good common sense, and nowhere near being phobia-level fear. What am I missing here?
Terrible that that happened to you! Glad you’re OK!
Similarly, I clearly recall every detail of the scene when I managed merely, and accidentally, to walk by a big rock on which lay coiled a large rattlesnake. The sound of that rattle instantly sent a primeval chill down my back, from head to toe. It was the same kind of instant reaction most people know from having touched a hot stove. I’d never heard that sound before but everything in me said, Get Away! I suppose that was a good example of ophidiophobia and if so, I’ll gladly accept that!
I am fine. Unlike a certain Thomas Cromwell, I don't dream of snakes. Harder to comprehend are those who love snakes. And yes, I just googled ophidiophilia and now wish I hadn't.
The dictionary describes ophidiophobia as “excessive” fear of snakes. I have zero understanding of what that means on some sort of scale of snake fear. I fear snakes enough to kill on sight. Seems like that is maximum fear to me. 🤔
A few years ago I live in a property with a garden which had a lot of mature trees with extensive root systems. In amongst those roots an adder had made its home. We happily co-existed, it would peak out every now and again to see what we were up to, never came near us. I never had the thought that I should have placed saucers of water around for it to sip out of - what an appalling host I was!
I've just started William Dalrymple's Last Mughal, which I have been meaning to read for ages but Siege has given me a push to actually do it.
I read Paul Theroux's Burma Sahib about Eric Blair (before he was George Orwell) in Burma late last year. The attitudes of the Raj were alive and well 70 years later in Burma, that's for sure.
And I'm enjoying Siege so much I've added the other two books from the trilogy to my pile.
Thanks for this Simon, I never would have read this book if you hadn't offered it.
Thank you! I should add Dalrymple's Anarchy to your list, if you haven't read it - his history of the East India Company. And thank you for pointing my way to Paul Theroux's book, I'll definitely seek that out. Orwell is one of the few authors I have read everything by, even his diary entries where he counts eggs and milks his goat!
Learning more about the Collector’s approach to parenting makes me reflect on his wife who has returned home. Poor woman. I really like the comparison made by Nancy of Fleury and Pierre - both hapless, bumbling and not quite slotting into the society they are finding themselves in. And I’m really enjoying the portrayal of the General and his tendency towards forgetfulness - I hope we read more scenes with him in before long. So hard not to gallop on to find out what’s going to happen next…
I was struck by the priest's turmoil over translating the bible from English into Hebrew and Greek (I think I have that right) having just lived through the fight for a translation of the bible into English with Wolf Hall.
Thanks for the heads-up about the Empire podcast. Its really helped set the tone for my reading of Siege. I've gone back to the beginning to listen in order - its great. I'd let William Dalrymple tell me the history of just about anything.
There’s a lot going on here. I’m resisting the temptation to read ahead. Mixed emotions as well. I find some of it comical and other sections make me feel uncomfortable. It’s definitely not my usual read and that’s a good thing 👍
I think some of the best literature makes the reader feel uncomfortable. The skill of Farrell is in keeping his cast of pompous, snobby, racists from verging on caricature.
the breadth of this novel is quite something. the quality of literary artistry to imbue its themes - history, civilisation - within a story that isn't weighed down by them, they emerge from its narrative, characters and situations, it really is a special novel.
I'm not sure about Lord Bhairava, but I just thought of something I heard Tom Holland say in one of his podcasts. About the first time he visited Varanasi and it made him think that this must have been how it felt in Greece or Rome with the gods and goddesses and temples.
When the British encountered India they encountered an civilisation that contained inside it something of the life of the antquity of thousands of years ago, and it may have simultaneously aroused feelings of perplexity and awe as well as colonialist superiority. All these impulses stirred up inside and between people.
At the dinner in Chapter 3, the Collector waxes nearly poetic about “progress.” Again, this sounds so modern! Humankind never learns. Or at least those in power never learn.
Bhairava: (I’m not South Asian, but was married to one, and lived with him in Chennai, formerly called Madras, for many years). Bhairava’s name means terrifying, he looks terrifying, eager for blood. He has a baffling number of arms. His cup is made from a skull. There are jackals, carrion eaters near his shrine. He is often a gatekeeper, stationed at the entrance to temples to keep out evil-doers. I would have thought that he belonged at the place where Fleury goes to meet the Maharaja, and that he would symbolize Fleury’s transition from his idea of order into the disturbingly alien native world. (See the cave in Passsage to India?) Instead, Bhairava is placed at the entrance to a scene of the worst of the Raj - stupid, ugly, violent people who despise and demean Indians. He appears to represent them, instead of repelling them. Bhairava also has an association with Kali Yuga, the last and most degraded age of the universe, before it is destroyed and begins again. Could that be it? I’m interested in what others have to say.
Thanks for that Nancy, very illuminating!
And is there perhaps something in the juxtaposition of this small shrine and the floating church from the great exhibition??
Maybe its to highlight the ignorance of the British to Indian culture and beliefs? Although I'm not convinced by this myself.
I feel like Fleury was expecting to see civilised order imposed by the British but so far all the British people he's met have been faintly ludicrous.
Ludicrous is the right word. In this, the British and Indians have much in common.
I have been trying to come up with the perfect distraction from today, and you have provided it. Time to dive deeper into all of your links and images.
Thank you!
From one horrorshow to another.
Fleury reminds me of Pierre, in W&P?
This occurred to me a few times this week.
So much reminded me of W&P in these chapters, from Fleury’s bumbling attempts to contribute ideas to the conversation, to the boisterous and reckless young officer riding a horse into the bungalow and making it drink horrid champagne (the poor bear came to mind), to the ruined dwellings, a bit like Bald Hills after the soldiers had come through - and these Victorians feeling so very nearly secure in their perceived superiority over their underlings. All the way to the rather brilliantly expressed musings on women’s place in a conversation - almost an echo of disgruntled late Leo, but with much more ironic distance and used as a way of skewering the men’s preconceptions.
A fantastic read so far!
Same here! I’m looking forward to seeing how this character will evolve—if ever :)
I love the heated and lofty theme of “civilization” being juxtaposed with the horrifying behavior of the opium seller and friends. Acting like frat boys while renaming their servants as animals. I kept wishing for a scene where we could see what they are thinking about these awful people.
There is so much humor in this book, some subtle, some knee-slapping. It must have been fun to write this book. I like, for instance, that Fleury bought his dog Chloë because its golden tresses reminded him of Louise. 😂
Fleury’s ophidiophobia reminds me of that scene early in Raiders of the Lost Ark when Indian Jones finds snakes in the plane he is trying to escape in. At our house, we have a strict rule about snakes, which also applies to spiders. Kill first. Identify second. Not very Buddhist of me, but I sleep just fine, thank you. 🥸
Ecuadorians said I should have identified (and killed) the snake that bit me. I told them I was too busy limping away!
😂
How much does someone need to hate and/or to fear snakes for it to qualify or classify as “ophidiophobia”? Where’s the line for that?
Is it only when one reaches Indiana Jones’s level of “snake hatred”??
I mean, if I were supposed to get on a plane filled with snakes, or about to jump into a pit filled with them, I would definitely decline any invitations to do either one! That only seems like good common sense, and nowhere near being phobia-level fear. What am I missing here?
It's a good question! Surely, all mammals have a healthy suspicion of snakes? I wasn't wary enough of them until I stepped on one.
Terrible that that happened to you! Glad you’re OK!
Similarly, I clearly recall every detail of the scene when I managed merely, and accidentally, to walk by a big rock on which lay coiled a large rattlesnake. The sound of that rattle instantly sent a primeval chill down my back, from head to toe. It was the same kind of instant reaction most people know from having touched a hot stove. I’d never heard that sound before but everything in me said, Get Away! I suppose that was a good example of ophidiophobia and if so, I’ll gladly accept that!
I am fine. Unlike a certain Thomas Cromwell, I don't dream of snakes. Harder to comprehend are those who love snakes. And yes, I just googled ophidiophilia and now wish I hadn't.
The dictionary describes ophidiophobia as “excessive” fear of snakes. I have zero understanding of what that means on some sort of scale of snake fear. I fear snakes enough to kill on sight. Seems like that is maximum fear to me. 🤔
Good for you! Seems reasonable to me! 👍🏻
A few years ago I live in a property with a garden which had a lot of mature trees with extensive root systems. In amongst those roots an adder had made its home. We happily co-existed, it would peak out every now and again to see what we were up to, never came near us. I never had the thought that I should have placed saucers of water around for it to sip out of - what an appalling host I was!
I've just started William Dalrymple's Last Mughal, which I have been meaning to read for ages but Siege has given me a push to actually do it.
I read Paul Theroux's Burma Sahib about Eric Blair (before he was George Orwell) in Burma late last year. The attitudes of the Raj were alive and well 70 years later in Burma, that's for sure.
And I'm enjoying Siege so much I've added the other two books from the trilogy to my pile.
Thanks for this Simon, I never would have read this book if you hadn't offered it.
Thank you! I should add Dalrymple's Anarchy to your list, if you haven't read it - his history of the East India Company. And thank you for pointing my way to Paul Theroux's book, I'll definitely seek that out. Orwell is one of the few authors I have read everything by, even his diary entries where he counts eggs and milks his goat!
Learning more about the Collector’s approach to parenting makes me reflect on his wife who has returned home. Poor woman. I really like the comparison made by Nancy of Fleury and Pierre - both hapless, bumbling and not quite slotting into the society they are finding themselves in. And I’m really enjoying the portrayal of the General and his tendency towards forgetfulness - I hope we read more scenes with him in before long. So hard not to gallop on to find out what’s going to happen next…
I keep thinking about the children, and how they really ought to have gone with her.
I was struck by the priest's turmoil over translating the bible from English into Hebrew and Greek (I think I have that right) having just lived through the fight for a translation of the bible into English with Wolf Hall.
Thanks for the heads-up about the Empire podcast. Its really helped set the tone for my reading of Siege. I've gone back to the beginning to listen in order - its great. I'd let William Dalrymple tell me the history of just about anything.
There’s a lot going on here. I’m resisting the temptation to read ahead. Mixed emotions as well. I find some of it comical and other sections make me feel uncomfortable. It’s definitely not my usual read and that’s a good thing 👍
I think that's what the writing is meant to do: make you laugh and feel uncomfortable, and uncomfortable about laughing as well.
I think some of the best literature makes the reader feel uncomfortable. The skill of Farrell is in keeping his cast of pompous, snobby, racists from verging on caricature.
the breadth of this novel is quite something. the quality of literary artistry to imbue its themes - history, civilisation - within a story that isn't weighed down by them, they emerge from its narrative, characters and situations, it really is a special novel.
Hobson-Jobson is a wonderful book. I found a longish entry on ‘griffin’. The book is available / searchable online, at Gutenberg:
https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/58529/pg58529-images.html
Fabulous! Thanks, Nancy.
I'm not sure about Lord Bhairava, but I just thought of something I heard Tom Holland say in one of his podcasts. About the first time he visited Varanasi and it made him think that this must have been how it felt in Greece or Rome with the gods and goddesses and temples.
When the British encountered India they encountered an civilisation that contained inside it something of the life of the antquity of thousands of years ago, and it may have simultaneously aroused feelings of perplexity and awe as well as colonialist superiority. All these impulses stirred up inside and between people.
Pig-sticking. Reminds me of the wolf hunting that I read about somewhere. If only I could recall where! 😉
The arrogance of the British makes me cringe. They are blind to what they are doing.
In particular, I found the names offensive: Ant, Ram and Monkey. So dehumanizing.
Me too!
❤️
At the dinner in Chapter 3, the Collector waxes nearly poetic about “progress.” Again, this sounds so modern! Humankind never learns. Or at least those in power never learn.