Footnote: there are lots of indications in this chapter that Cromwell is losing his grip and is not as sharp as he once was. As one point he defends the church reforms with an anti-papal sound bite. He thinks, I suppose I could be more original. But I'm stuck on repeat. As Henry says, you don't surprise me anymore.
There's so much here! I love your play on words with doubting Thomas, referring either to Cromwell or Cramner.
In a lot of ways, the conversation between Henry and Cromwell about Wolsey feels like the climax in their relationship. It lays bare what has been happening between them. The first real moment I felt fear for Cromwell is when Henry consulted Norfolk (?) and Cromwell was surprised to learn that Henry witheld information from him. Cromwell definitely values power but I also think he values loyalty, while Henry only prizes what makes him feel good.
Cromwell is getting so swept in his past that Call-Me calls him out on it, and he forgets to mention Chapuys to Mary. Reading this last book makes me feel so apprehensive. I've become so attached to Cromwell that it's harrowing to get closer to the end.
There's so much light in this chapter. A poignant quote: "If God glanced down now, what would he see? Two ageing men in failing light, talking about their past because they have so much of it."
That failing light! And the light at Leeds Castle, coming and going. It's making me feel very uneasy. And that last conversation with Henry feels like a death knell.
I can hardly bear it. Wondering whether to whoosh on to the end and get it over with, rip off the Elastoplast. But then the read along will be done and I can hardly bear that either!
But also, as others have commented, the signals of the end are piling up in ways that make my skin crawl. Cromwell is not at the top of his game and the sand is shifting beneath his feet.
It is painful, I feel, to see Cromwell beginning to stumble. I also find some of his conversations with Gregory to be painful, to not have been the parent you imagined yourself to be must be hard. Another lovely way to spend Sunday evening although I can feel the dread building. This read along has painted a much bigger picture for me than my first reading, and these slow reads have also encouraged me to slow down with my reading as a whole. The tangents this week were very interesting and I love that deeper delve into Cromwell's world.
Kingston?! Is he getting too much work from Cromwell? But seriously, why Kingston? I don't find Fitzwilliam a surprise, he was on my suspect list. (I try not to look up anything about Cromwell's fall, waiting for the story to develop.)
Your F&T are always excellent but even more so this week, Simon. Such interesting stuff. I love the Jerusalem song so it was fascinating to read its background and watch the videos presented and the cleanup of the portrait of Anne of Cleves. I have been dipping into the articles most of Saturday. Nobody could accuse you of slowing down as we near the end of out slow read. 🙏🏼👍
Haha thanks Pina. I'm scrambling ahead so I can have Christmas off. This was a good one – I was especially excited to find out that the Hinchingbrooke bodies were real.
Oh my word, so many fascinating footnotes and tangents to explore in this week’s summary! I think you almost outdid yourself this time, Simon! The section on Jerusalem was completely new to me as non-English and I found it wholly fascinating (complete with multiple clips, including one by Paul Robeson!). I keep thinking of how many fewer layers of meaning I would be seeing without these weekly posts.
Ha I did go on a bit of a tangent there! I always have to cut the number of footnotes for lack of time. There's something about the Wounds of Christ (medieval theologians counted thousands of them, not the usual five). And then there are all the extra things people notice and put down in the comments!
Thank you Simon. I struggle with some of the writing at times and would be lost without F&T. The quote of the week is something I highlighted and reflected upon and your words tied it all up nicely with a bow.
Simon, you have done the work of ten Substack writers. Will you cease to surprise us?
The theme of disenchantment is excellent. On one side there is the pomp of the Catholic Church, the relics, the legends and myths, a belief in magic, the idea of royal blood and the aristocracy––more sleeping kings than sleeping wool merchants! On the other side is the Reformation and all of modernity, science, efficiency, capitalism, Cromwell born of "vile" blood yet more able than anyone else.
Wonderful writing from both Hilary and Simon once again! It’s all starting to crumble a bit for Crumb now isn’t it. I’m not sure how I feel about it. And, as always, I’m prising apart my feelings for Mantel’s character and my feelings about the historical TC. I admit that I don’t feel as distressed at his fate as many others here do. Yes, he has some admirable traits and we see why he is as he is, but it doesn’t take away from the fact that he’s been the architect of many others’ violent deaths. So, you know, karma.
Thanks Sharon! Yes, I think we're all feel the ambivalence and the horror. I think the distress comes from how Mantel writes Cromwell, so that you feel so close to him, as though your mind is mixing with his. It's difficult to establish any distance after being Cromwell for a year: you know the terrible things you have done, but at the same time, you want to live.
Yes, you’re right of course. That’s got me thinking about the things that he may or may not feel regret/guilt/shame about. George Boleyn seems to haunt him (literally and figuratively) more than most.
Yes, that's why haunting is such a big theme in the book. I think George haunts him. I think the reformers who died haunt him because he feels he should have saved them. I think the eel boy haunts him – along with the implication that he is his father's son. So last but not least: Walter haunts him.
Twelfth Night for me symbolises the end of the party, the day by which the Christmas decorations must come down. I am not ready to face that yet though, so I have decided to stay in festive mode and pull out a selection of optimistic quotes from this section:
- "the king is merry, easy company, as he has not been for many a year. He is Henry the Well-Beloved, with a wife in prospect and a feather in his cap."
- "The season looks better already. Stephen off the council, Stokesley twitching his last. Clear skies." ("By the Mass, gentlemen, I think one of these outbursts will land Winchester in the Tower. He can’t read the king, can he?")
- The envoys from Saxony are sure that Cromwell can "ease Henry to a better way of thinking" on religion - "Once Lady Anna is here, the bridegroom will be mellow, persuadable, and you will press your advantage."
- Henry finds Anna's portrait "well and seemly" & even compares her innocence to Jane's: "Such immaculate ladies are not found these days. But it appears you have discovered one other."
- Cromwell anticipates a happy future at Launde: "He will rebuild it, a house after his own liking, in England’s calm and green heart."
- "Everyone who has seen her seems delighted with the new queen" & Henry is pleased with Lady Lisle's report : "‘Good and gentle to serve and please. So there you are,’ he says to the girl. ‘What news could be better? You will have a loving mistress, and I a loving mate.’"
It all reminds me of the teeter-totter image in Bring Up the Bodies... ("You gain a point and lose a point, gain and lose.") I do think these books do a great job of reminding us that for people living through these dramatic events, things really could have gone either way...
I love this series of books and the slow read. I wish there was a daily chat like W and P, I feel there is so much I am missing as I read. I always reread after your weekly posts, and I see more, but there are so many layers. I will definitely do again next year! Thank you Simon, and all the other people who post thoughts on the trilogy.
I would have liked a daily chat at well, although it was a bit hard to administer alongside the War and Peace one. Some weeks I feel I can only scratch the surface when I write these posts!
Nah, I know. I'm always thinking about how these things could be better. Now I've got all the material written, I'm going to have a bit more free time to create an even better experience. This year's been crazy!
Footnote: there are lots of indications in this chapter that Cromwell is losing his grip and is not as sharp as he once was. As one point he defends the church reforms with an anti-papal sound bite. He thinks, I suppose I could be more original. But I'm stuck on repeat. As Henry says, you don't surprise me anymore.
There's so much here! I love your play on words with doubting Thomas, referring either to Cromwell or Cramner.
In a lot of ways, the conversation between Henry and Cromwell about Wolsey feels like the climax in their relationship. It lays bare what has been happening between them. The first real moment I felt fear for Cromwell is when Henry consulted Norfolk (?) and Cromwell was surprised to learn that Henry witheld information from him. Cromwell definitely values power but I also think he values loyalty, while Henry only prizes what makes him feel good.
Cromwell is getting so swept in his past that Call-Me calls him out on it, and he forgets to mention Chapuys to Mary. Reading this last book makes me feel so apprehensive. I've become so attached to Cromwell that it's harrowing to get closer to the end.
There's so much light in this chapter. A poignant quote: "If God glanced down now, what would he see? Two ageing men in failing light, talking about their past because they have so much of it."
That failing light! And the light at Leeds Castle, coming and going. It's making me feel very uneasy. And that last conversation with Henry feels like a death knell.
I can hardly bear it. Wondering whether to whoosh on to the end and get it over with, rip off the Elastoplast. But then the read along will be done and I can hardly bear that either!
But also, as others have commented, the signals of the end are piling up in ways that make my skin crawl. Cromwell is not at the top of his game and the sand is shifting beneath his feet.
It is painful, I feel, to see Cromwell beginning to stumble. I also find some of his conversations with Gregory to be painful, to not have been the parent you imagined yourself to be must be hard. Another lovely way to spend Sunday evening although I can feel the dread building. This read along has painted a much bigger picture for me than my first reading, and these slow reads have also encouraged me to slow down with my reading as a whole. The tangents this week were very interesting and I love that deeper delve into Cromwell's world.
Kingston?! Is he getting too much work from Cromwell? But seriously, why Kingston? I don't find Fitzwilliam a surprise, he was on my suspect list. (I try not to look up anything about Cromwell's fall, waiting for the story to develop.)
As far as I remember, this plot isn't explored in the trilogy. It's possibly Cromwell never knew of it. But yes – why Kingston? Good question.
Right? What's the deal, Kingston? Treachery everywhere.
Your F&T are always excellent but even more so this week, Simon. Such interesting stuff. I love the Jerusalem song so it was fascinating to read its background and watch the videos presented and the cleanup of the portrait of Anne of Cleves. I have been dipping into the articles most of Saturday. Nobody could accuse you of slowing down as we near the end of out slow read. 🙏🏼👍
Haha thanks Pina. I'm scrambling ahead so I can have Christmas off. This was a good one – I was especially excited to find out that the Hinchingbrooke bodies were real.
Oh my word, so many fascinating footnotes and tangents to explore in this week’s summary! I think you almost outdid yourself this time, Simon! The section on Jerusalem was completely new to me as non-English and I found it wholly fascinating (complete with multiple clips, including one by Paul Robeson!). I keep thinking of how many fewer layers of meaning I would be seeing without these weekly posts.
Ha I did go on a bit of a tangent there! I always have to cut the number of footnotes for lack of time. There's something about the Wounds of Christ (medieval theologians counted thousands of them, not the usual five). And then there are all the extra things people notice and put down in the comments!
Thank you Simon. I struggle with some of the writing at times and would be lost without F&T. The quote of the week is something I highlighted and reflected upon and your words tied it all up nicely with a bow.
That's wonderful. Thanks!
Simon, you have done the work of ten Substack writers. Will you cease to surprise us?
The theme of disenchantment is excellent. On one side there is the pomp of the Catholic Church, the relics, the legends and myths, a belief in magic, the idea of royal blood and the aristocracy––more sleeping kings than sleeping wool merchants! On the other side is the Reformation and all of modernity, science, efficiency, capitalism, Cromwell born of "vile" blood yet more able than anyone else.
Wonderful writing from both Hilary and Simon once again! It’s all starting to crumble a bit for Crumb now isn’t it. I’m not sure how I feel about it. And, as always, I’m prising apart my feelings for Mantel’s character and my feelings about the historical TC. I admit that I don’t feel as distressed at his fate as many others here do. Yes, he has some admirable traits and we see why he is as he is, but it doesn’t take away from the fact that he’s been the architect of many others’ violent deaths. So, you know, karma.
Thanks Sharon! Yes, I think we're all feel the ambivalence and the horror. I think the distress comes from how Mantel writes Cromwell, so that you feel so close to him, as though your mind is mixing with his. It's difficult to establish any distance after being Cromwell for a year: you know the terrible things you have done, but at the same time, you want to live.
Yes, you’re right of course. That’s got me thinking about the things that he may or may not feel regret/guilt/shame about. George Boleyn seems to haunt him (literally and figuratively) more than most.
Yes, that's why haunting is such a big theme in the book. I think George haunts him. I think the reformers who died haunt him because he feels he should have saved them. I think the eel boy haunts him – along with the implication that he is his father's son. So last but not least: Walter haunts him.
This will be new. I don’t think I have ever read slowly in my whole life—-except for Old Church Slavonic texts, and sometimes German…
Welcome to the slow reading movement, Alexandra! It's immensely rewarding.
Twelfth Night for me symbolises the end of the party, the day by which the Christmas decorations must come down. I am not ready to face that yet though, so I have decided to stay in festive mode and pull out a selection of optimistic quotes from this section:
- "the king is merry, easy company, as he has not been for many a year. He is Henry the Well-Beloved, with a wife in prospect and a feather in his cap."
- "The season looks better already. Stephen off the council, Stokesley twitching his last. Clear skies." ("By the Mass, gentlemen, I think one of these outbursts will land Winchester in the Tower. He can’t read the king, can he?")
- The envoys from Saxony are sure that Cromwell can "ease Henry to a better way of thinking" on religion - "Once Lady Anna is here, the bridegroom will be mellow, persuadable, and you will press your advantage."
- Henry finds Anna's portrait "well and seemly" & even compares her innocence to Jane's: "Such immaculate ladies are not found these days. But it appears you have discovered one other."
- Cromwell anticipates a happy future at Launde: "He will rebuild it, a house after his own liking, in England’s calm and green heart."
- "Everyone who has seen her seems delighted with the new queen" & Henry is pleased with Lady Lisle's report : "‘Good and gentle to serve and please. So there you are,’ he says to the girl. ‘What news could be better? You will have a loving mistress, and I a loving mate.’"
(What could possibly go wrong?)
I don't know whether all these quotes just make it worse! The future, that curious blank, could go either way... or not.
It all reminds me of the teeter-totter image in Bring Up the Bodies... ("You gain a point and lose a point, gain and lose.") I do think these books do a great job of reminding us that for people living through these dramatic events, things really could have gone either way...
Having just finished the next chapter, Magnificence, I can only say: god, yes.
I love this series of books and the slow read. I wish there was a daily chat like W and P, I feel there is so much I am missing as I read. I always reread after your weekly posts, and I see more, but there are so many layers. I will definitely do again next year! Thank you Simon, and all the other people who post thoughts on the trilogy.
I know "in Pursuit of the Past" and Bea Stitches--are there others I am missing who write on Wolf Hall?
Check out Andrea's stack as well: https://andreaigadwsp.substack.com/ on the food of Wolf Hall, among other things.
Thank you for the mention Judy!
I would have liked a daily chat at well, although it was a bit hard to administer alongside the War and Peace one. Some weeks I feel I can only scratch the surface when I write these posts!
I didn’t mean to add more work for you—you are doing a superb job, can’t imagine how you could possible do more!!
Nah, I know. I'm always thinking about how these things could be better. Now I've got all the material written, I'm going to have a bit more free time to create an even better experience. This year's been crazy!