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An echo from the past (I'm aiming for a fast read for the next few weeks, followed by a slow read when I catch up with the group): I wouldn't so much say that I like or don't like the characters, as that I find them almost cartoonish in their concerns. BUT...I'm looking forward to what's next from these characters! Because in fact...I think that the cartoonishness that I'm seeing is the space of extreme privilege that Tolstoy is exploring at this point. I haven't read Tolstoy before, and I'm excited to see where this goes.
I’m about to turn 50 and look back on my younger days a few degrees shy of horror-much I wish I had done differently. How relieving to end week one recap with a reminder from Tolstoy, “in (me) there are all possibilities…In this is the greatness of (wo)man.”
Not just because I’m a Lisa, but I’ve been following Lise because of how she quietly sits with her needlework (“don’t notice me”), but then makes very pointed comments or questions, reminding others that she is in the room and listening, quite attentively.
My first Slow Read. I especially enjoy Simon's comments regarding background facts and cites to further avenues of investigation. Thank you for your research that could lead to interesting topics to explore! This will be my third read in the last fifteen years--the first prompted by the Pevear, et, al., translation, followed by the Maudes' translation, revised by Mandelker (fortunately, I'm retired so can afford the time to read and re-read). I'm using the Maude translation again. Each read has revealed more wonderful prose, particularly descriptions, and happy to be back picking up more nuances, insights with each reading.
First read for me. The weekly summary was wonderful! Really interesting and helpful to have a slightly zoomed out summary, as the day to day intimacy feels so immersive.
What struck me is how Tolstoy uses the bear less as “quirky Russia” and more as a moral X-ray. After Anna Pavlovna’s polished salon, this scene shows the same class sliding effortlessly into casual cruelty; violence as entertainment, a living creature as a prop. It’s such a blunt way of telling us what kind of world we’ve entered.
Even if the characters treat it matter-of-factly, Tolstoy doesn’t let it feel neutral. Knowing Tolstoy’s later moral intensity, I can’t help reading the bear as an early stress-test: what people call “fun” reveals the underside of their civilisation.
Was anyone else surprised by the matter-of-fact way in which Tolstoy mentions the participation of a "young bear", chained no doubt, in the drunken party? I read ahead and found out that our revelers played a practical joke on a cop with the said bear. Did bears routinely make appearances in such raves?
I'm not sure about routinely, but yes bears were kept for entertainment and sport – it's quite a startling start to the book isn't it? After the refined respectability of Anna Pavlovna's soirée!
First time slow read participant and first comment. I can't believe how much I'm enjoying it! A couple of years ago I tried reading two classics that I ended up quitting for various reasons. Now I think I may try them again at some point as slow reads.
I have a question about the bear. Is this something people actually did back then? Or is it just a literary whimsy of Tolstoy's to heighten the level of debauchery displayed?
Thank you Simon for doing this and congratulations on your success!
P.S. I learned about you from the Happier podcast. Gretchen and Elizabeth are excellent slow read ambassadors.
Loving this... I remember very little from my first read (almost 50 years ago, gulp...) Really appreciated your notes, as we certainly get a vast crowd of characters in this first week. Much clearer now 😁
I’m a dedicated knitter, and when I’m working on a new and complex pattern, it helps me to divide the stitches into sections, and then to knit each section as if it’s a discrete piece. I find I’m much more careful and notice mistakes faster.
Reading W&P this way reminds me of that. My mind stops trying to think ahead to where things will end up; I’m more able to focus in just the content of this one small piece. I trust things will all fit together in some way I’ll be able to see later.
I love that comparison Janet. The two year's that I did this slow read, I found it so powerful to just focus on the one chapter and marvel at it on its own terms, without thinking too much about the rest of the book. Each is like a miniature or perhaps yes a patch in a patchwork quilt.
Simon I just left a comment in chapter 3 thread but repeating it here. What did it mean at the time of publication for the fictional Anna Pavlovna to be named as a lady in waiting to the real empress dowager (if I have that correct)? Apart from the real historical figures and events (eg Bonaparte and the wars), does the novel satirise or comment on real Russian nobility much?
“Oh interesting @Suze I think the name is just very common. There are a couple more fictional characters who we will meet who have the same names or similar to real peoplem. In an endnote Tolstoy says it was coincidental. Remember also that he is describing events form fifty years previous – although he faced a lot of criticism for his portrayal of some of the real people.”
He does satirise a few real people, and one of them he is particularly savage about. However, generally Tolstoy's style is more compassionate than satirical: there's a deep sympathy in his portrayal of most of his characters, real and fictional.
Thank you for this, I'm up to date and will be reading Chapter 7 later. This is super useful to helping me stay on track and give me pointers while I get my head around it all. What has surprised me is how readable it is. I'm really enjoying this slow read
This is my second time participating in Simon's slow read. Last year I read the Oxford World Classic's version. This year I'm listening to the audio read by Thandiwe Newton. I'm finding much more humor this time around. I don't know if it's the voices or just the fact that I'm getting the material delivered in English rather than from footnotes. I don't think I could have listened for my first time through though. I spent a lot of time flipping back to check things, and that would be difficult with audio.
I'm always struck by the passage about Anna Pavolvna managing her party like the "foreman of a spinning-mill." One of my top 10 books of all times is A Gentleman in Moscow by Amor Towles, which has a passage that very much feels like an homage to this. (There's a one-eyed cat named Kutuzov, so it's not beyond the realm of possibility.) Towles describes an architect in the hotel bar who is drawing “a crowded restaurant that looked very much like the Piazza. Only, under the floor of this restaurant was an elaborate mechanism of axles, cogs, and gears; and jutting from an outside wall was a giant crank, at the turn of which each of the restaurant’s chairs would pirouette like a ballerina on a music box, then spin around the space until they came to a stop at an entirely different table. And towering over this tableau, peering down through the glass ceiling, was a gentleman of sixty with his hand on the crank, preparing to set the diners in motion.”
Discussion Code of Conduct
Welcome to the comments section! Please remember that this is an inclusive space with a diverse community. Respect others and their opinions, and help keep this a welcome space for everyone.
You may start one thread in the comments section. If you would like to make additional comments, please add to your thread or reply to other readers' threads.
Many thanks!
An echo from the past (I'm aiming for a fast read for the next few weeks, followed by a slow read when I catch up with the group): I wouldn't so much say that I like or don't like the characters, as that I find them almost cartoonish in their concerns. BUT...I'm looking forward to what's next from these characters! Because in fact...I think that the cartoonishness that I'm seeing is the space of extreme privilege that Tolstoy is exploring at this point. I haven't read Tolstoy before, and I'm excited to see where this goes.
I’m about to turn 50 and look back on my younger days a few degrees shy of horror-much I wish I had done differently. How relieving to end week one recap with a reminder from Tolstoy, “in (me) there are all possibilities…In this is the greatness of (wo)man.”
Not just because I’m a Lisa, but I’ve been following Lise because of how she quietly sits with her needlework (“don’t notice me”), but then makes very pointed comments or questions, reminding others that she is in the room and listening, quite attentively.
I’m interested in seeing where she goes.
My first Slow Read. I especially enjoy Simon's comments regarding background facts and cites to further avenues of investigation. Thank you for your research that could lead to interesting topics to explore! This will be my third read in the last fifteen years--the first prompted by the Pevear, et, al., translation, followed by the Maudes' translation, revised by Mandelker (fortunately, I'm retired so can afford the time to read and re-read). I'm using the Maude translation again. Each read has revealed more wonderful prose, particularly descriptions, and happy to be back picking up more nuances, insights with each reading.
Wondeful. Thanks Carole. I was reading it every five years or so before I started this slow read – so much to come back for.
First read for me. The weekly summary was wonderful! Really interesting and helpful to have a slightly zoomed out summary, as the day to day intimacy feels so immersive.
Great!
What struck me is how Tolstoy uses the bear less as “quirky Russia” and more as a moral X-ray. After Anna Pavlovna’s polished salon, this scene shows the same class sliding effortlessly into casual cruelty; violence as entertainment, a living creature as a prop. It’s such a blunt way of telling us what kind of world we’ve entered.
Even if the characters treat it matter-of-factly, Tolstoy doesn’t let it feel neutral. Knowing Tolstoy’s later moral intensity, I can’t help reading the bear as an early stress-test: what people call “fun” reveals the underside of their civilisation.
Was anyone else surprised by the matter-of-fact way in which Tolstoy mentions the participation of a "young bear", chained no doubt, in the drunken party? I read ahead and found out that our revelers played a practical joke on a cop with the said bear. Did bears routinely make appearances in such raves?
I'm not sure about routinely, but yes bears were kept for entertainment and sport – it's quite a startling start to the book isn't it? After the refined respectability of Anna Pavlovna's soirée!
Second time slow reader -- rereading these early chapters is like meeting up with an old friend.
I know that feeling well.
First time
First time slow read participant and first comment. I can't believe how much I'm enjoying it! A couple of years ago I tried reading two classics that I ended up quitting for various reasons. Now I think I may try them again at some point as slow reads.
I have a question about the bear. Is this something people actually did back then? Or is it just a literary whimsy of Tolstoy's to heighten the level of debauchery displayed?
Thank you Simon for doing this and congratulations on your success!
P.S. I learned about you from the Happier podcast. Gretchen and Elizabeth are excellent slow read ambassadors.
Hi Elizabeth, I too learned about Simon's slow read from Gretchen and Liz.
Fantastic. Welcome! Yes, people did keep bears – I don't think Tolstoy's exaggerating here.
Loving this... I remember very little from my first read (almost 50 years ago, gulp...) Really appreciated your notes, as we certainly get a vast crowd of characters in this first week. Much clearer now 😁
Great!
Re: reading one chapter at a time.
I’m a dedicated knitter, and when I’m working on a new and complex pattern, it helps me to divide the stitches into sections, and then to knit each section as if it’s a discrete piece. I find I’m much more careful and notice mistakes faster.
Reading W&P this way reminds me of that. My mind stops trying to think ahead to where things will end up; I’m more able to focus in just the content of this one small piece. I trust things will all fit together in some way I’ll be able to see later.
I love that comparison Janet. The two year's that I did this slow read, I found it so powerful to just focus on the one chapter and marvel at it on its own terms, without thinking too much about the rest of the book. Each is like a miniature or perhaps yes a patch in a patchwork quilt.
Simon I just left a comment in chapter 3 thread but repeating it here. What did it mean at the time of publication for the fictional Anna Pavlovna to be named as a lady in waiting to the real empress dowager (if I have that correct)? Apart from the real historical figures and events (eg Bonaparte and the wars), does the novel satirise or comment on real Russian nobility much?
Here's what I wrote in response to you there:
“Oh interesting @Suze I think the name is just very common. There are a couple more fictional characters who we will meet who have the same names or similar to real peoplem. In an endnote Tolstoy says it was coincidental. Remember also that he is describing events form fifty years previous – although he faced a lot of criticism for his portrayal of some of the real people.”
He does satirise a few real people, and one of them he is particularly savage about. However, generally Tolstoy's style is more compassionate than satirical: there's a deep sympathy in his portrayal of most of his characters, real and fictional.
Thank you for this, I'm up to date and will be reading Chapter 7 later. This is super useful to helping me stay on track and give me pointers while I get my head around it all. What has surprised me is how readable it is. I'm really enjoying this slow read
This is my second time participating in Simon's slow read. Last year I read the Oxford World Classic's version. This year I'm listening to the audio read by Thandiwe Newton. I'm finding much more humor this time around. I don't know if it's the voices or just the fact that I'm getting the material delivered in English rather than from footnotes. I don't think I could have listened for my first time through though. I spent a lot of time flipping back to check things, and that would be difficult with audio.
I'm always struck by the passage about Anna Pavolvna managing her party like the "foreman of a spinning-mill." One of my top 10 books of all times is A Gentleman in Moscow by Amor Towles, which has a passage that very much feels like an homage to this. (There's a one-eyed cat named Kutuzov, so it's not beyond the realm of possibility.) Towles describes an architect in the hotel bar who is drawing “a crowded restaurant that looked very much like the Piazza. Only, under the floor of this restaurant was an elaborate mechanism of axles, cogs, and gears; and jutting from an outside wall was a giant crank, at the turn of which each of the restaurant’s chairs would pirouette like a ballerina on a music box, then spin around the space until they came to a stop at an entirely different table. And towering over this tableau, peering down through the glass ceiling, was a gentleman of sixty with his hand on the crank, preparing to set the diners in motion.”